Rex Allen wrote: > If computationalism is true, and computation is the source of > conscious experience, then shouldn't we expect that what is > ontologically real is the simplest possible universe that can develop > and support physical systems that are Turing equivalent? > > Does our universe look like such a universe? > > If our universe doesn't look like such a universe, then wouldn't it be > reasonable to assume that ours is not the "real" universe, and that a > simpler reality underlies it? > > > > Perhaps we have our wires crossed. The definition of computationalism you have _is not what is in the literature_. This is the distillation I have formulated from the literature (in my paper):

*COMP* This is the shorthand for computationalism as distilled from the various sources cited above. The working definition here: "/The operational/functional equivalence (identity, indistinguishability at the level of the model) of (a) a sufficiently embodied, computationally processed, sufficiently detailed symbolic/formal description/model of a natural thing X and (b) the described natural thing X/"/./ The refs...Beer, Pylyshyn^ , Putnam^ , Horst and many others. This definition of COMP therefore has nothing explicitly to do with claiming consciousness. However, if COMP is true, then if you compute some kind of model of cognition, then you may expect that model to be equivalent to a mind. An attribution of experience, however, is completely spurious. If COMP (as defined above) is true, then _all you need_ is abstract symbol manipulation of the Turing machine kind to get equivalence. You can remain completely mute/agnostic on the existence of experience in the COMP entity. This is the origin of the of the catch phrase "cognition is computation". You may be confusing COMP with 'strong AI', which says that a COMP model of cognition is actual cognition (a mind, from which you might infer consciousness). Constrast this with "weak AI" which says that a COMP model of cognition is not an instance of cognition. Refuting COMP the way I have means "strong AI" is false, "weak AI" is true. Refuting COMP the way I have means your idea of 'Turing Equivalence" is meaningless/impossible. The very best I can say of COMP is that it is trivially true in the sense that you can 'compute' a mind if you already know everything (and I mean everything, everywhere) .... in which case the mind operates akin to a flight simulator.....you compute the brain and the entire environment. Totally pointless .... and inconsistent with the logic of being ignorant of the universe in the sense that scientists are ignorant. You do not know the environment, hence you can't compute it. Amazing how many different views you can get of this stuff. cheers colin --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---