Some of you may be interested in my model of our Universe in which I propose
that the fundamental building blocks of our Universe are tronnies each of
which is one-half of nothing, with no mass and no volume and a charge of +e
or -e.  I have attached a copy of the first portion of my latest patent
application disclosing my model which was filed a few months ago.  The
portion attached includes the lead-in portion, the Background and the
Summary.  If anyone is interested in the rest of the patent application, he
or she should let me know.  It will soon be published by the patent office
at  Several earlier applications are listed in the first
paragraph of the attached.  These can now be down-loaded from the patent
office website.  Search for "tronnies".

John R. Ross
V.P. Intellectual Property
Trex Enterprises Corp.
Office No. (858) 646-5488
Fax No. (858) 646-5500
-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Flammarion
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:43 PM
To: Everything List
Subject: Re: Emulation and Stuff

On 18 Aug, 11:25, Bruno Marchal <> wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2009, at 10:55, Flammarion wrote:
> > Any physcial theory is distinguished from an
> > Everythingis theory by maintaining the contingent existence of only
> > some
> > possible mathematical structures. That is a general statement that
> > is not affected by juggling one theory for another. I have further
> > defined PM in *terms* of such contingency.
> That is actually very nice, because it follows the Plato-Aristotle-
> Plotinus definition of matter which I follow in AUDA.
> And this is enough for showing we don't have to reify matter (nor  
> numbers).

If you are not reifying anything. then there is nothing, hen there is
no UD.

>   I don't see, indeed, how you can both define matter from contingent  
> structures and still pretend that matter is primitive.

I am saying that material existence *is* contingent
existence. It is not a structure of anything.

> Somehow you talk like you would be able to be *conscious* of the  
> existence of primitive matter.

Well, at least I don't talk about immaterial machines dreaming each

> All the Peter Jones which are generated by the UD, in the Tarski or  
> Fregean sense, (I don't care), will pretend that primitive matter does  
> not exist, and if your argument goes through, for rational reason and  
> logic (and not by mystical apprehension), those immaterial Peter Jones  
> will prove *correctly* that they are material, and this is a  
> contradiction.

It's not  a contradiction of materialism. If there are no immaterial
PJ's, nothing is believed by them at all.

> So to save a role to matter, you will have to make your "consciousness  
> of primitive matter" relying on some non computational feature.

No. I just have to deny immaterial existence. You keep confusing the
that theoretical entities could hypothetcially have certain beliefs
with the
actual existence of those entities and beliefs.

> Note that if you accept "standard comp", you have to accept that  
> "Peter Jones is generated by the UD" makes sense, even if you cease to  
> give referents to such "Peter Jones".

False. Standard comp says nothing about Platonism or  AR.
I can give a Johnsonian refutation of the UD. I can't see it,
no-one can see it, so it ain't there.

>Fregean sense is enough to see  
> that those Peter Jones would correctly (if you are correct) prove that  
> they are material, when we know (reasoning outside the UD) than they  
> are not.

So? That doesn't man I am wrong, because it doesn't mean I am in
the UD. The fact that we can see that a BIV has false beliefs
 doesn't make us wrong
about anything.

> Your argument should be non UD accessible, and thus non Turing emulable.

No, it just has to be right. The fact that a simulated me
*would8 be wrong doesn't mean the real me *is* wrong.

> If you feel being primitively material, just say "no" to the doctor.

Why can't I just get a guarantee that he will re-incarnate me
Even if matter doesn't exist, I won't lose out.

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