On 28 Aug, 18:15, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/8/28 Brent Meeker <meeke...@dslextreme.com>:
> > Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> >> 2009/8/27 Flammarion <peterdjo...@yahoo.com>:
> >>> On 27 Aug, 08:54, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> 2009/8/26 David Nyman <david.ny...@gmail.com>:
> >>>> This is because if consciousness is a computational process then it is
> >>>> independant of the (physical or ... virtual) implementation. If I
> >>>> perfom the computation on an abacus or within my head or with stones
> >>>> on the ground... it is the same (from the computation pov).
> >>>> And that's my problem with physicalism. How can it account for the
> >>>> independance of implementation if computations are not real ?
> >>> Physcialism doesn't say that computations aren't real. It says
> >>> real instances of computation are identical to physical processes.
> >> If everything is reduced to physical interaction then computations
> >> aren't real. Also that doesn't answer how it account for the
> >> independance of implementation. As the computation is not primary, how
> >> 2 different physical process could generate the same computation
> >> without abstract computations being the only thing that link the two
> >> processes having existence. How can you make sense of church-turing
> >> thesis if only "realized computations" make sense ?
> >> Regards,
> >> Quentin
> > Try substituting "lengths" for "computations".  Are lengths primary
> > because the same length can occur in different physical objects?
> > Brent
> Why would I ? It's not the same thing at all... You could have said
> substitute by 'red'... there are multiple physical red object.

And there are multiple computaitons..

> The thing is you can come up with an infinity of physical (possible)
> realisation for a given computation.

And and infinity of red objects.

> So the question is what is
> linking the computation to the physical realisation if not the
> abstract rules (which don't exists with physicalism, because there
> exists only "realized" computations... no abstract thing) ?

Physicalism doesn't reject abstract entities, it rejects immaterial
Abstracta are arrived at by ignoring irrelevant features of individual
The die and the sugar cube both fall under "cubic" once their material
constitution is ignored

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