Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 13 Nov 2009, at 21:01, Brent Meeker wrote:
>>>
>>
>> I used to tell people who asked that I was an agnostic.  But the 
>> trouble with that was that they supposed I was uncertain about the 
>> existence of *their* god: a supernatural immortal agent would loved 
>> us but had an obsessive interest in our sex lives.  So now I 
>> generally tell people I'm an atheist, unless I think they are 
>> interested in a philosophical answer, because I don't believe what 
>> theists believe.  So atheism is not a religion, it is a failure to 
>> believe in the theist gods - those gods that are agents, omnipotent, 
>> omniscient, and ominibenevolent.  Thinking that such a god is does 
>> not exist is a scientific theory, i.e. one supported by the evidence 
>> and not contradicted by any credible evidence.  I know you adopt a 
>> very abstract and mathematical meaning for "theism", but we don't get 
>> to define the meaning of words any more than I got to define "agnostic".
>
>
> Why should we use the term "God" in the sense of those who clearly 
> have confused science with temporal authoritative argument?

Because that's what most people who use the term mean.  And if we tell 
them we're agnostic about God we will be telling them that we have no 
good reason not to believe in their sky father and hence no good reason 
to resist the revealed morality they want to impose through laws.

> The word and concept God have been used in all culture and tradition, 
> and refer to to some projection of our ignorance, close to the idea of 
> infinite, or inconceivable, in-something.
> May be this is due to the fact that many got a christian education. I 
> did not. For me "God" refer to the all transcendant and ineffable 
> things described by mystics and rationalized by the thinker who are 
> searching.
> Like I said, atheists and christians defend the same concept of God, 
> the first to believe in its non-existence, the second to believe in 
> its existence. Why does atheist choose the definition of those in 
> which they does not believe the theory. It is like to say "genetics is 
> crap" because of Lyssenko.
>
>
> The agnostic search without prejudice and with a critical eyes on any 
> theory.
Does your eye ever become so critical as to reject a theory - not reject 
for sure, but for all practical purposes you consider it false?

>
>
>>
>> You say you are agnostic on (primitive) matter; but you usually claim 
>> to have proven that matter doesn't exist, because to assume it does 
>> leads to contradiction.
>
>
> Not at all. I am entirely agnostic about Matter. 
> What I am pretty sure of is that Matter is incompatible with Digital 
> Mechanism. I do believe that Comp entails Matter makes no sense.
>
> I am agnostic on Matter, because I am agnostic on Digital Mechanism. 
> And then diabolically enough, I have too, because none correct machine 
> can know for sure Digital Mechanism is true (even after surviving a 
> classical teleportation).

If not knowing for sure makes one an agnostic then I'm an agnostic on 
everything.  But that definition implies science is no better than 
guessing and all opinions are equal.  I think we need to keep a 
distinction between knowing for sure and knowing in the sense of having 
good evidence for.

Brent

>
> Digital Mechanism is only my favorite working hypothesis, and also, I 
> admit, I find it rather plausible given the quantum facts. But 
> honestly, I don't know, and I gave reason why we cannot *know* that. 
> It is part of the true but uncommunicable theological facts, and 
> eventually it concerns only me and my doctor/shaman/priester/whatever.
>
> And then, as a computer scientist, I show also that the logic of 
> self-reference by self-correct machine provides an arithmetical 
> interpretation of Plotinus theology. But from this, comp is only made 
> refutable, not proved.

Scientific theories are never proved.  That doesn't mean we're agnostic 
about whether the Earth is flat or spheroidal.

Brent
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>>
>> Brent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Nov 2009, at 12:17, Kim Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://c0116791.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Carolyn-AAI09-720-web.mov
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Carolyn Porco - the genius behind the Cassini mission. My favourite  
>>>> female on the planet.
>>>>
>>>> If you ever read Carl Sagan's only novel "Contact" (or saw the movie)  
>>>> - this is the person on whom Sagan modelled Ellie Arroway (Jodie  
>>>> Foster in the film)
>>>>
>>>> Introduction by Richard Dawkins
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Kim Jones
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=.
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
>
>
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Everything List" group.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=.


Reply via email to