Hi Stephen,

On 19 Feb 2010, at 19:43, Stephen P. King wrote:

        Tegmark's argument completely ignores the roles that structure can
provide, among other things.

You may elaborate.
I can make sense of this in quantum topology, but this needs huge magnetic field. I do dream that metallic atoms well disposed could implement some local quantum topology, but it is not easy to prove that quantum fault tolerance can be obtained by atom structuring (at normal temperature, pression, electromagnetical conditions) in a way to exploit (compute with) the interferences. I have no certainty here, to be sure.

His paper has been the modern equivalent to the
infamous papers back in the 20th century that proved that heavier than air
flight was impossible.


Hmm... Tegmark does not pretend that quantum computation is impossible. Just that the brain does not exploit quantum coherence so that it works like a classical computer, which I find quite plausible. To pursue your analogy, to say that brains are quantum compuring is a bit like saying that humans can fly ... with their arms.

It may be plausiible, with the current "knowledge" (technically: belief) that the origin of life may have exploited quantum algorihmic, but this would be astonsihing at the level of interacting cells.

Of course, we don't know. I would be glad to be surprised. It would not change anything to the comp theology, it would just put our substitution level much more below the neurophysiological actual implicit substitution level. (entailiing many more worlds in the many worlds, much less accessible by us in case "we" are quantum entity (always the same "Galois Connection" theories/models, equation/ surfaces).





People like him are a net negative contribution to
the evolution of our understanding of our universe.

Hmm... I will not shot on a colleague which inspired the birth of this list an belongs, with Wheeler, to the first physicist open to the abandon of physicalism and/or weak materialism ;)

He is also a fellow many-worlders.

But like many scientists he does not take into account the data of philosophy-of-mind/cognitive-science, nor the data of computer science and mathematical logic, despite they fit admirably. Only, they make eventually physics more a sum on all mathematical structures than a mathematical structure *among* others. May be both are true, complex open problem (related to the consistency of Quine New Foundation (NF) I think).

He missed the qualia.



PS, Life is a pattern that emerges from biochemistry plus, not equal to
it...

Sure. Biochemistry itself is a pattern in the mind of the Löbian machines, and the mind of the Löbian machine is a reflect of arithmetical truth in arithmetical (true) provability. I think (and can argue with the comp assumption).

Best,

Bruno




-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:18 PM
To: fabric-of-real...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: everything-list List
Subject: Does the plants quantum computations?

Hi,

I have to find time to look at this in more detail, but I am already rather
impressed. Please correct me.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-it-comes-to-photosynth
esis-plants-perform-quantum-computation

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=shining-a-light-on-plants-q
uantum-secret&sc=WR_20100209

If life is a biochemical process, it is a quantum process or "computation", of course. But if those papers are correct, genuine interference processed
are used by proteins selected for that task.

I don't think this can invalidate Tegmark's argument that the brain is
mainly a classical machine, but I know that in biology, we can always be surprised, and it may be a tiny step toward such invalidation. This may lead
to lowering down our mechanist substitution level.

It open the prospect to build quantum devices by genetical engineering.
Perhaps.

Bruno Marchal

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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