On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 8:40 AM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Skeletori <sami.per...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My hope and wish is that by this time, wealth and the economy as we know
> it
> > will be obsolete.  In a virtual world, where anyone can do or experience
> > anything, and everyone is immortal and perfectly healthy, the only
> commodity
> > would be the creativity to generate new ideas and experiences.  (I highly
>
> > recommend reading page this to see what such an existence could be:
> http://frombob.to/you/aconvers.htmlthis one is also interestinghttp://
> www.marshallbrain.com/discard1.htm).  If anyone can in the comfort
> > of their own virtual house experience drinking a soda, what need would
> there
> > be for Pepsi or Coke to exist as companies?
>
> Before bankrupting big companies, we may take a look at ourselves
> (humanity?) in the situation of being immortal, healthy
> with unlimited creativity (in facto). Does it include sex?
>

Sure I think so.  The Marshall Brain piece address that topic in a few of
his chapters.  You need not worry about disease or unwanted pregnancy and
you could look however you like.


> should we include 'having babies' (the ultimate happiness)? in which case
> humanity would proliferated even at a higher level than now, all of them
> enjoying sex and proliferation?
>

The problem with reproduction, as mentioned in the frombob.to website above,
is that even at an extremely slow rate of producing new minds, it is still
an exponential rate.  And exponential growth means all resources in the
universe would be quickly exhausted in a very short period of time (perhaps
as little as a million years if intelligent life arises in every galaxy),
precluding new life elsewhere from evolving.  It would be almost as selfish
and as unjust for one civilization to take all the resources (before life
could evolve somewhere) as it would be to come and take those resources
after it had evolved, therefore I disagree with Kurzweil that intelligent
matter will spread at the speed of light in all directions consuming
everything in its wake.  Consider how many eons all humans on Earth could
live powering our computations using Jupiter as a fuel source.

However, reproduction and child raising could still be experienced in game
worlds, where all the participants are consenting individuals who have
uploaded.  During the experience there would be both parents and children,
and after the game ends you would have some new very close bonds with some
of the minds you met and knew within that game.  Spending 70 years on a game
would be nothing when you could live for trillions of years.



> Or should we include a 'mind-only' restriction and shrink away the
> sex-related part of life and eliminate the sex-related organs? Would it be
> worth the survival?  similarly: if our mentality can produce 'everything',
> how about food to enjoy? are we eliminating as well our metabolism - not to
> get unlimitedly fat?
>

In an uploaded state you could spend all day eating from an unlimited buffet
of any food you could think of (and more) and get neither full nor fat.  In
the end it is just firings of your neurons (artificial or otherwise) and if
uploaded, that would be all there is to you, there would be no metabolism,
and no additional resources would be sacrificed to provide the experience of
eating that food.


> thinking in wider domains of the suggested utopy brings up points beyond
> nixing the Pepsi or Coke stocks.
>
> I rather limit my unlimited capabilities and have a beer.
>
>

Not a bad choice :-)

Jason

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