On 13 Jul 2010, at 05:00, Allen Rex wrote:

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
I don't think we can use reason to defeat reason.

What machines can do is to use reason to go beyond reason, and find some non
provable or non rational truth.

This is not a defeat of reason. It is the complete contrary, I would say.

I don't think he's trying to use reason to defeat reason, but rather
to show that that reason indicates that there is no reason for what we

By introspection it is hard for me to not believe in the truth of the axioms of elementary arithmetic, and everyone seems to believe in them (except sunday philosophers). I can show that indeed we cannot explain such axioms from something simpler, indeed all universal machines can do that.

Then from this, I can explain why and how persons appears and develop beliefs of the kind of the beliefs in universes, God, quantum superposition, laws, etc. Again all universal machines can do that.

This makes elementary arithmetic a pretty cute TOE. imo and imt (in my opinion and in my taste).



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