# Re: numbers?

```2010/8/2 Brent Meeker <meeke...@dslextreme.com>

>  On 8/2/2010 1:39 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
> ...
>
>  Meaning of words can change and do change. Meaning of english words are
> dependant of humans. Meaning of mathematical thruths aren't.
>
>
> Mathematical truths don't have meaning.
>```
```

Well I must be too dumb or have too much prejudice with programming a
computer...

The fact that there is or isn't a biggest prime or a biggest number does not
depend on human, consciousness or whatever.

We do not invent that... we can't choose the result, either it is true or it
is false.

Do I have to think about something for it to exists ?

And yes if you choose other axioms, you find other results, still it's not
"invented", the result are according to the rules. If you change definition
of words, yes it means something different, so what ?

The truthness of a statement is not decided when you choose the rules... it
was true or false according to the rules even before someone thought of that
particular rules or even if no one ever had and never will.

The fact is that in every possible language, following the rules of addition
in base 10, will always give you 1 + 1 = 2. Even if you speak martian. Even
if you come from another place of the universe or from another universe.

>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mathematical truth are independent of humans, life and the universe and
>>> the rest, it's nonsense if it's otherwise.
>>>
>>>
>>>  What's "it's" in the above sentence?
>>>
>>
>> It's, is the fact that mathematical truths are independent of humans.
>>
>>
>>  Ah.  The point in question is asserted.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>
> No, it's about the meaning. If mathematical truth are dependant on humans
> they mean utlimately nothing at all. So it's nonsensical.
>
>
>
> Truth is property of sentences.  In mathematics it's just a token T you
> attach to some sentences (the axioms) and then applying some rules of
> inference that are assumed to preserve T you see which other sentences get
> T.  It is nonsense, in the sense that pure mathematics is not about
> anything.  It is useful for creating models of things because it guarantees
> that the model will not be inconsistent, i.e. lead to the inference of every
> statement.  Mathematics attains certainty by giving up meaning.
>
> Brent
> "In mathematics we never know what we are talking about or whether what we
> say is true or false."
>         --- Bertrand Russell
>

I don't understand what you're trying to say... maybe I don't understand
what you mean by 'inventing'...

Quentin

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