*Brent,*
*I agree with most of your statements (whatver value this may have...) Let
me interject below.*
*John M

*
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@dslextreme.com>wrote:

> On 3/6/2011 7:16 AM, 1Z wrote:
>
>> It is. In the collapse theory, it has to be the collapser (the other
>>> >  theories are too vague, or refuted).
>>>
>>>
>> Not at all. Objective collapse theories such as GRW have not been
>> refuted,
>>
>
*JM: nor have any such been affirmed, since all of them are based on partial
knowledge.*
**

>  and "spiritual interpretations", like von Neumann's are the vagues of
>> the lot
>>
>>
>>
>
> The most conservative interpretation of QM, closest to Bohr, is that the
> equations of QM are merely description of what we know about particular
> systems.



>

*JM: In my words: we know only a part of the totality (= particular systems)
and cannot 'think' beyond that. We cannot comprise 'everything'. *
**

>  The equations make stochastic predictions.  When we do the experiment, one
> result of those predicted is realized with the appropriate frequency of
> occurence.  The only "collapse" is actualization of one of the possibilities
> in our description.  Decoherence theory is a way of modeling when we can
> expect the actualization to be complete.  This has a technical difficulty
> since the unitary evolution implies that decoherence is never complete but
> only approached asymptotically.


*JM: All that understood within the 'model' we draw of the wholenss, i.e.
whatever we know about it as of yesterday. It certainly IS finite. (The last
sentence is above my head).*
**

>  However, recent theories of holographic information imply that only finite
> information can be contained within an event horizon.  This would in turn
> imply there must be a smallest non-zero probability and decoherence actually
> drives cross-terms in the density matrix to zero.  The problem of basis and
> einselection still remains.
>
> Brent
>  *John M
>
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