On 20 Mar 2011, at 18:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
on 20.03.2011 15:03 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 19 Mar 2011, at 21:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
on 19.03.2011 20:16 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 19 Mar 2011, at 18:04, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
...
As I have written, I rather follow my intuition rather than logic.
So I cannot explain why I do not go further with step 4, 5, 6 and
so on. It well may be that my unconsciousness do not believe in
"Yes, doctor", I just do not know.
I don't know either. In science we never know, that is why we try to
make clear the theories, and to derive propositions *in* such
theories.
I agree and this is why I follow the everything-list.
...
On the other hand, I am practitioner and I like more pondering for
example what happens if to put together Watson (IBM computer that
won Jeopardy) and Big Dog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJJQ0zNNOM
Big dog is very impressive, and Watson too, but in very different
domains. In AI the difficulty is in the integration of knowledge, and
the development of a sense of self.
This is why collective systems of robots could be a good toy to try
it out. In this respect I like a lot the book by Dario Floreano and
Claudio Mattiussi, Bio-Inspired Artificial Intelligence: Theories,
Methods, and Technologies, 2008. Well, they do not discuss
consciousness, they are even careful with the term intelligence:
p. 585 Conclusion: "A careful reader have noticed that we have not
yet defined what intelligence is. This was done on purpose because
intelligence has different meanings for different persons and in
different situations. For example, some believe that intelligence is
the ability to be creative; other think that it is the ability to
make predictions; and others believe that intelligence exists only
in the eye of the observer. In this book we have shown that
biological and artificial intelligence manifests itself though
multiple processes and mechanisms that interact at different spatial
and temporal scales to produce emergent and functional behavior. The
most important implication of the approaches presented here is that
understanding and engineering intelligence does not reduce to
replicating a mammalian brain in a computer but requires also
capturing multiply types and levels of interactions, such as those
between brains and bodies, individual and societies, learning and
behavior, evolution and development, self-protection and self-
repair, to mention a few".
Yet, it gives a nice overview of what engineers are doing nowadays
and it helps to understand how Big Dog may function.
Clearly qualia is a problem, have no idea how it could emerge.
I can explain why universal machine have qualia. It comes from the
self-reference logic. But only "rich" machine (the Löbian one), can
talk and develop discourse about their qualia, and have to be
astonished about them, until they bet that they are machines. Qualia
are sort of automated gap-filling in self-perception. They obey a
qualia logic, and mechanism makes the quanta a particular case of
qualia. This is even too much 'subjectivist' to me, but then I have no
way to escape logical conclusions.
On the other hand, biologists claim that even bacteria can perceive
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/01/perception-feedback-and-qualia.html
Do those biologists pretend that bacteria have qualia? I have not much
evidence, but I would bet they do, as little universal system sharing
our histories. I have more evidence that paramecia have qualia, by
they more complex behaviors, and appearance of some amount of
information flux crossing the cell. But that might be some sort of
human projection, and I have no certainty.
In case of doubt, despite it might look a bit naïve, it is preferable
to bet that an entity has qualia, than to bet the contrary. This might
avoid suffering.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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