On Jun 20, 6:32 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> On 19 Jun 2011, at 19:35, selva wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 19, 5:21 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> >> Hi selva,
>
> >> On 17 Jun 2011, at 22:10, selva wrote:
>
> >>> 1.consider a person cut off from all his senses,all his 5 senses  
> >>> shut
> >>> down and now he is about to find a solution for a problem. Does his
> >>> environment (or rather,positions of atoms/energy around
> >>> him, ) ,affects his solution ?
>
> >> Assuming mechanism, and some relatively high substitution level, the
> >> answer is no.
>
> >>> will there be different solution at different environments ?
>
> >> There is no reason. The environment can only play a role through
> >> interaction, or interference, but this will not occur in the  
> >> situation
> >> that you are describing.
> > 1)then the converse should also be true right?that our thoughts don't
> > affect our environment..?
>
> You are right. But only in the setting that you describe, where a  
> person is isolated from the environment.
> This seems to me rather obvious, so I might be missing something.
>
> > in that case,what about noetic sciences ? Are you suggesting it
> > doesn't exist at all ?
>
> It exists, and is fundamental. I argue that if we accept the mechanist  
> hypothesis, then the noetic constitutes the fundamental science(s). I  
> provide the math from extracting both quanta and qualia from the  
> noetic. Physics continue to exist, but is a a study of an emerging  
> mind invariant.
> I remind that materialism (even weak materialism: the doctrine that  
> primitive or primary (aristotelian) matter exists is logically  
> incompatible with Occam and Mechanism, despite many materialist  
> believe the contrary.
but noetic science has showed that our physical environment is
affected by our thoughts.Definitely they are not doing it through our
senses,not through our actions.then how do they do it ?previously you
mentioned that there is no interference between our mind and
environment.
>
> > 2)will gravity(acceleration of the particles in brain) affect the
> > solution ?
>
> As far as the local computations made by the brain are well described  
> at the level of particles interactions, gravity is playing a role, no  
> less than electromagnetism or any other forces describing (locally)  
> its current brain state evolution.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> 2.consider an artificial brain fed with signals similar to normal
> >>> brain and (for arguments sake )this artificial brain and a normal
> >>> human brain have computational similarities...then will they have
> >>> similar response? or as they are made of different materials there
> >>> would be differences in response ?
>
> >> It really depends on the mechanist assumption and the choice of the
> >> substitution level. The mechanist assumption just assumes the
> >> existence of a substitution level where you are Turing emulable. If
> >> the level is very low, the "environment" might be a part of your
> >> "generalized brain", and it is logically possible that you have to
> >> describe it at the Planck scale or below, but most neurophilosophers
> >> and physician believe that the generalized brain *is* the biological
> >> brain.
>
> >> The 'reversal consequence' of Digital Mechanism does not depend on  
> >> the
> >> substitution level. It depends only on the existence of such a level.
>
> >> Bruno
>
> >>http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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