2011/6/20 selva <selvakr1...@gmail.com>

>
>
> On Jun 20, 6:32 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > On 19 Jun 2011, at 19:35, selva wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 19, 5:21 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > >> Hi selva,
> >
> > >> On 17 Jun 2011, at 22:10, selva wrote:
> >
> > >>> 1.consider a person cut off from all his senses,all his 5 senses
> > >>> shut
> > >>> down and now he is about to find a solution for a problem. Does his
> > >>> environment (or rather,positions of atoms/energy around
> > >>> him, ) ,affects his solution ?
> >
> > >> Assuming mechanism, and some relatively high substitution level, the
> > >> answer is no.
> >
> > >>> will there be different solution at different environments ?
> >
> > >> There is no reason. The environment can only play a role through
> > >> interaction, or interference, but this will not occur in the
> > >> situation
> > >> that you are describing.
> > > 1)then the converse should also be true right?that our thoughts don't
> > > affect our environment..?
> >
> > You are right. But only in the setting that you describe, where a
> > person is isolated from the environment.
> > This seems to me rather obvious, so I might be missing something.
> >
> > > in that case,what about noetic sciences ? Are you suggesting it
> > > doesn't exist at all ?
> >
> > It exists, and is fundamental. I argue that if we accept the mechanist
> > hypothesis, then the noetic constitutes the fundamental science(s). I
> > provide the math from extracting both quanta and qualia from the
> > noetic. Physics continue to exist, but is a a study of an emerging
> > mind invariant.
> > I remind that materialism (even weak materialism: the doctrine that
> > primitive or primary (aristotelian) matter exists is logically
> > incompatible with Occam and Mechanism, despite many materialist
> > believe the contrary.
> but noetic science has showed that our physical environment is
> affected by our thoughts.Definitely they are not doing it through our
> senses,not through our actions.then how do they do it ?previously you
> mentioned that there is no interference between our mind and
> environment.
>

It seems to me that he said "but this will not occur **in the situation that
you are describing**.

Not that it does not occur.

Quentin


> >
> > > 2)will gravity(acceleration of the particles in brain) affect the
> > > solution ?
> >
> > As far as the local computations made by the brain are well described
> > at the level of particles interactions, gravity is playing a role, no
> > less than electromagnetism or any other forces describing (locally)
> > its current brain state evolution.
> >
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> 2.consider an artificial brain fed with signals similar to normal
> > >>> brain and (for arguments sake )this artificial brain and a normal
> > >>> human brain have computational similarities...then will they have
> > >>> similar response? or as they are made of different materials there
> > >>> would be differences in response ?
> >
> > >> It really depends on the mechanist assumption and the choice of the
> > >> substitution level. The mechanist assumption just assumes the
> > >> existence of a substitution level where you are Turing emulable. If
> > >> the level is very low, the "environment" might be a part of your
> > >> "generalized brain", and it is logically possible that you have to
> > >> describe it at the Planck scale or below, but most neurophilosophers
> > >> and physician believe that the generalized brain *is* the biological
> > >> brain.
> >
> > >> The 'reversal consequence' of Digital Mechanism does not depend on
> > >> the
> > >> substitution level. It depends only on the existence of such a level.
> >
> > >> Bruno
> >
> > >>http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
> >
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> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
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