>Exactly.  So it doesn't depend on the components.  Then what does it
>depend on?  It depends on their arrangement and interaction.

Yes, but my point is that arrangement and interaction alone don't
matter if the components don't have the capability to support the
desired higher level phenomena.

If you had the blueprint of a watermelon seed and recreated it
precisely out of light bulbs instead of atoms, you could make a
gigantic sculpture of a watermelon seed, but nothing is going to
happen if you plant it in the ground and water it. You could make a
computer program to grow such a blueprint seed into a watermelon, but
it's never going to taste like anything to anyone. It's just a digital

>So what's the other half?  Do brains have to be made of special
>conscious atoms?

The other half is the aggregate sensorimotive experience of all matter
over all time. The consciousness of a brain doesn't derive from
special atoms, it's that we are the sensorimotive experience of a
human brain, so the consciousness of human like phenomena seems
special to us, and in our view of the universe, it is special to us.

>What does it mean "sensorimotor way" mean.  It sounds like the cognitive
>analog of elan vital.
It extends beyond cognitive. Sensorimotor is just experiential input
(detection, sensation, perception, etc) and output (determinism,
instinct, volition). The three terms in each case are in ascending
order, so that an atom might experience detection and deterministic
force compelling reaction and those two functions may be simultaneous,
whereas the larger aggregates of cells and organs share a collective
experience which is perceptually rich and which spreads out the gap
between sense and motive, or slows it down so that a feeling of choice
and can develop.

>But analog ones are?
No, I'm saying that it's not the circuits which are making the brain
conscious, it's the brain itself which is conscious, and the
circulation of electromagnetic correspondences within the tissue of
the brain are just the shadow of that. You can't build a brain by
superimposing those shadows onto a digital semiconductor array and
expect it to feel like a brain feels.

components at some low level, in this case atoms, are *not* alive.
can cognition be any different?

On Jul 10, 11:53 am, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 7/9/2011 9:44 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
> >> Why?  Biological tissue is made out of protons, neutrons, and electrons
> >> >  just like computer chips.  Why should anything other than their
> >> >  input/output function matter?
> > A cadaver is made out of the same thing too. You could pump food into
> > it and fit it with an artificial gut, even give it a synthesized voice
> > to make pre-recorded announcements and string it up like a marionette.
> > That doesn't mean it's a person. Life does not occur on the atomic
> > level, it occurs on the molecular level.
> Exactly.  So it doesn't depend on the components.  Then what does it
> depend on?  It depends on their arrangement and interaction. The
> components at some low level, in this case atoms, are *not* alive.  How
> can cognition be any different?
> > There may be a way of making
> > inorganic molecules reproduce themselves, but there's no reason to
> > believe that their sensation or cognition would be any more similar
> > than petroleum is to plutonium. The i/o function is only half of the
> > story.
> So what's the other half?  Do brains have to be made of special
> conscious atoms?
> >> >  Just assertions.  The question is whether something other than you can
> >> >  have them?
> > Why couldn't it? As you say, I am made of the same protons, neutrons,
> > and electrons as everything else. You can't have it both ways. Either
> > consciousness is a natural potential of all material phenomena or it's
> > a unique special case. In the former you have to explain why more
> > things aren't conscious, and the latter you have to explain why
> > consciousness could exist. My alternative is to see that everything
> > has a private side, which behaves in a sensorimotor way rather than
> > electromagnetic, so that our experience is a massive sensorimotor
> > aggregate of nested organic patterns.
> What does it mean "sensorimotor way" mean.  It sounds like the cognitive
> analog of elan vital.
> Brent

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