On 16.08.2011 02:28 Stathis Papaioannou said the following:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi<use...@rudnyi.ru>
wrote:
On 15.08.2011 19:18 Bruno Marchal said the following:


Hi Evgenii,

On 14 Aug 2011, at 21:25, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

Bruno,

Let me put it this way. I guess that a Lobian machine could be
implemented, or it has been already implemented. So let us
then take some Lobian machine and then you demonstrate
practically that such a machine is conscious. Then it would
much easier to understand what you mean.

I don't think we can demonstrate technically that anything is
conscious. If someone did this for anything, he would have solve
the mind body problem.

It is generally accepted that we cannot prove our own
consciousness (we can know our own, here and now, but we cannot
provide a proof for that). It is accepted that we cannot prove
that something is conscious.

Well, let me quote Jeffrey Gray

p. 18. “Philosophers sometimes endow conscious experience with an
inviolable privacy, rendering it incapable of meeting the
scientific requirement for replicability of empirical observations.
Nothing could be further from the truth, as attested by the
reliability of visual illusions, among many other phenomena.”

p. 135. "These experiments demonstrate yet again, by the way, that
the 'privacy' of conscious experience offers no barrier to good
science. Synaesthetes claim a form of experience that is, from the
point of view of most people, idiosyncratic in the extreme. Yet it
can be successfully brought into the laboratory."

He seems to disagree with you. Hence, as I have said, your meaning
of "conscious" seems to be different from his meaning.

But the scientists could be studying zombies. There is no way of
knowing. What we can know is that IF the original brain is conscious
and is modified with a functional analogue THEN the modified brain
will also be conscious.

There are many things that we cannot exclude, for example solipsism. Does this mean that we should not do science?

Evgenii

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