On 9/15/2011 1:42 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/14/2011 9:49 PM, meekerdb wrote:
Ummm, really? Let me see if I understand this claim, no physicist believes that
General Relativity (GR) is valid or no physicists believe that there are solutions to
the field equations of GR that are invalid? What about Roger Penrose and Stephen
Hawking? They wrote the paper that showed a proof that the field equations of GR
generate singularities for relatively innocuous and plausible conditions and yet they
are still great proponents of GR. So... what is the source of your opinion re "no
physicist believes ..."?
On 9/14/2011 6:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:18 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 9/14/2011 3:45 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
There are no singularities in physics - only in the equations; an indication the
To me it seems best to understand the beginning of the universe as the
same thing as the end of the universe - a singularity out of which
order emerges. Not nothingness but thingness, and more importantly,
the experienceness of thingness. That is what needs no explanation
because it precedes the division of anything from anything else so
there is nothing that is not already explained. Explanation can only
be conceived of outside of the singularity where things can perceive
some phenomena but not others, so that they want to translate the
unknown into their native experience.
no longer applies.
It would make sense that singularity transcends purely physical
On the contrary, the singularity is in the description. Which is why no physicist
believes the description (General Relativity) is valid.
The importance of their paper was that it showed GR predicted a singularity under very
general conditions. Before that,it had been widely assumed that the singularity
prediction was just an artifact of assuming perfectly spherical 3-geometry with no
rotation. Of course I can't really vouch for what every physicist ever believed. But I
was in graduate school at the time studying GR and nobody I knew, including Penrose whom I
met and my fellow students, drew any conclusion except that GR breaks down and does not
apply in those circumstances. And no one was surprised by this. There was already an
active search for a quantum theory of gravity, which it was assumed would avoid singularities.
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