On 29 Sep 2011, at 19:09, meekerdb wrote:

On 9/29/2011 12:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
OK. But this is non communicable by (sound) machines. In fact in the ethics of the ideally correct machine, asserting moral principle is immoral. We can only encourage people to understand or discover this by themselves.


Several times you have made moral assertions (like the immoral one above :-) ), and I have agreed with them. But I don't see how they follow from the UDA. An objective basis of agreement on ethics and morals would be a great advance in world peace, so I'm very interested in how you derive these assertions (which you shouldn't make).

The ineffable is so much ineffable that even just writing one sentence on it can only completely miss the point.

In fact, your very question answers it: we are near a diagonal self- defeating sentence. Those are the fixed point of p <---> ~Bp, and are of type Dt. So they belong to G* minus G. They obey the laws Bx --> ~x.

And so, if I was a wise guy, I should either shut my mouth, or explain that "If moral makes sense, then we can't communicate that moral", or something like that.

Moral is a bet in a better reality, and thus Dt, by completeness, for Löbian entity talking firs order logic. (~Bf <-> there is a model/ reality). That is another path for justifying that link.

Lao Tseu, Plotinus, etc. All the mystic, capable if being a bit rationalist knows that they should better NOT talk. That is why the ideal machine keeps so much silence on the deep question. Thanks to G*, many no provable proposition (rationally communicable, justifiable) can be justified by assuming some reflexion principle, like Dt (Bf -> f), or stronger.

But it is here that the LUMs can easily fall in the pseudo-theological trap.


PS This comes more from AUDA, than UDA. But UDA is enough to explain that "if we are moral enough then we cannot enforce anyone in believing that he will survive, or just be satisfied, with an artificial brain (or even an aspirin). The truth of comp, or aspirin (btw), is in personal judgement, evaluation and possible (risky) experiences. That's number life!


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