2011/10/5 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>

> On Oct 5, 10:15 am, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No they are not saying that. They are saying that a model of the brain
> fed
> > with the same inputs as a real brain will act as the real brain... if it
> was
> > not the case, the model would be wrong so you could not label it as a
> model
> > of the brain.
>
> That would require that the model of the brain be closer than
> genetically identical, since identical twins and conjoined twins do
> not always respond the same way to the same inputs.


They aren't in the same state.


> That may not be
> possible, since the epigenetic variation and developmental influences
> may not be knowable or reproducible. It's a 'Boys From Brazil' theory.
> Cool sci-fi, but I don't think we will ever have to worry about
> considering it as a real possibility. We know nothing about what the
> substitution level of the 'same inputs' would be either. Can you say
> that making a brain of a 10 year old would not require 10 years of
> sequential neural imprinting or that the imprinting would be any less
> complex to develop than it would be to create than the world itself?
>
> >
> > They never said they could know which inputs you could have and they
> don't
> > have to. They just have to know the transition rule
> (biochemichal/physical)
> > of each neurons and as the brain respect physics so as the model, and so
> it
> > will react the same way.
>
> Reacting is not experiencing though. A picture of a brain can react
> like a brain, but it doesn't mean there is an experiential correlate
> there. Just because the picture is 3D and has some computation behind
> it instead of just a recording, why would that make it suddenly have
> an experience?
>

Because if you ask it something (feed input) you'll get an answer which
would be the same as a real person... you can't ask anything to a recording.


>
> >
> > You do the same mistake with your tv pixel analogy. If I know all the
> > transition rule of *a pixel* according to input... I can build a model of
> a
> > TV that will *exactly* display the same thing as the real TV for the same
> > inputs without knowing anything about movies/show/whatever... I don't
> care
> > about movies at that level. They never said that they would
> explain/predict
> > the input to the tv, just replicate the tv.
>
> You have to care about the movies at that level because that's what
> consciousness is in the metaphor. If you don't have an experience of
> watching a movie, then you just have an a-signifying non-pattern of
> unrelated pixels. You need a perceiver, and audience to turn the image
> into something that makes sense. It's like saying that you could write
> a piece of software that could be used as a replacement for a monitor.
> It doesn't matter if you have a video card in the computer and drivers
> to run it, without the actual hardware screen plugged into it there is
> no way for us to see it. A computer does not come with it's own screen
> built into the interior of it's microprocessors


But a human does... what a magical feature don't you think ?


> - but we do have the
> equivalent of that. Our experience cannot be seen from our neurology,
> you have to already know it's there. Building a model based only on
> neurology doesn't mean that experience comes with it any more than a
> video driver means you don't need a monitor.
>
> Craig
>
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