On 30 Oct 2011, at 10:34, benjayk wrote:

Nick Prince-2 wrote:

This is similar to my speculations in an earlier topic post
where I suggest that  very old or dying brains might
deterorate in a specific way that allows the transition of 1st person
experiences from an old to
a young mind i.e. the decaying brain becomes in some way  homomorphic
to a new young brain which allows an extension of consciousness.
This is not even required. The decaying brain can become no brain, and
consciousness proceeds from no brain. Of course this means that some
continuity of consciousness needs to be preserved outside of brains.
Theoretically this doesn't even require that structures other than brains can be conscious, since we know from our experience that even when/ while a structure is unconscious it can preserve continuity (we awake from deep
sleep and experience a coherent history).
The continuity may be preserved simply through similarity of structure. Like our continuity of personhood is preserved through the similarity of our brains states (even though the brain changes vastly from childhood until old age), continuity of human consciousness may be preserved through similarity
of brains (even though brains have big differences is structure).

So this could even be a materialist sort of non-technological immortality.

Sure. I would say that's the one exploited by nature, and that's the reason why we do children, and why we might be tented to be angry when the children looks of behave to much differently than us.

It's just that most materialists firmly identify with the person, so they
mostly won't care much about it ("What's it worth that consciousness
survives, when *I* don't survive.").

That's something like a total individualistic illusion, which might be less common that we might think, as people easily dies for their (good or bad) ideas or values. There are "bad" forces in play in the sense that a form of marketing encourage some abuse in the little ego values, and some politics disencourage solid and valid education, to even more control that marketing issue (and that leads to harmful paradoxes (like alcohol encouraged (see almost any movies) and cannabis illegal, just for one typical example). people care more about values than the actual political world does reflect (due to a lot of complex historical partially contingent factors).

If they like the idea of immortality, they will rather hope for the
singularity. But impersonal immortality seems more in accord with our
observations than a pipe dream of personal immortality through a
technological singularity,

In my opinion, the singularity is the discovery of the universal machine. Church's thesis if you want.
The rest is a sequence of deeper echoes.

and also much more elegant (surviving through
forgetting seems much simpler than surviving through acquiring abitrarily
much memory and personal identity).

I sort of agree with this. But I'm not sure if this is communicable, or need to be communicated.

I wonder why less people consider this possiblity of immortality,

I think that if you do that properly, you realize that all people does that. The *moment* when they do that is irrelevant from that *moment* perspective. That's one reason more to let people doing as they do, which does not mean accepting they coerce against different personal ways.

as it both
fits more with our intuition (does it really seem probable that all persons grow abitrarily old?) and with observation (people do actually die) than
other forms of immortality.

Mechanism is really a many-immortality theory. There is a plethora of path.
Some are short and provide shortcuts to the Nirvana, say.
Others are more like sequence of multiple incarnations and reincarnations, and they prolonged the Samsara.


What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?

And it is this ...
Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Innumerably     (Aurobindo)


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