On Nov 12, 12:25 am, Kim Jones <kimjo...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> Is it possible to have a universe with no laws, including the laws of physics?

Physically possible or ideally possible? Ideally you could have a
universe which contained sensations but no memory. That wouldn't have
'laws', but it would have sense. Sense is primary. Laws arise from
sense, as does computation. Whether it is physically possible is
another story. What we mean by physical is precisely that it conforms
to our sense of lawful expectation, so that non-lawful physics is
really an oxymoron.

> Is not having any laws of physics possible? What could happen within such a 
> universe? It seems at least a logical possibility (to me).
>
> Wouldn't this be equivalent to saying either:
>
> 1. The laws of physics can't be divined or derived in those universes for 
> some reason so we only think there no laws
>
> 2. The laws of physics change continually in those universes so we can't 
> measure them
>
> 3. Nothing is possible at all in those universes, but the universes 
> nevertheless exist in some sense.
>
> Is this just an empty set or is there more to it?


I think these are ways of chasing your own tail. You are the one who
is proposing the idea of a universe with no laws of physics so what
that implies is entirely up to you. If the term universe means to you
a lawful physical system in the first place, then to suggest one which
has no physics and no laws is really just inventing the idea of a Nil-
verse. Can a universe exist which is in no way a universe? The
question doesn't mean anything.

The three questions are all red herrings to me.

1. unasks the question by injecting doubt into the initial definition
of the nil-verse. "What if the un-universe is really a universe but we
can't tell"?
2. obscures the question by weakening the definition of 'law' with
considerations of measure and rate of change.
3. a deux ex machina of semantic wordplay. What is meant by possible
and exist? "What if something impossible is somehow possible?"

Craig

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