2011/11/13 Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> >> >> 2011/11/13 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> >> >>> >>> On 12 Nov 2011, at 23:11, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2011/11/12 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> >>> >>>> >>>> On 10 Nov 2011, at 14:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2011/11/10 benjayk <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Spudboy100 wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > In a message dated 11/9/2011 7:27:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>>>> > benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com writes: >>>>> > >>>>> > Probably the one that is most convincing is direct experience. Try >>>>> > meditation (my favorite is just doing nothing while being aware not >>>>> to >>>>> > snooze or think or search for something to do,etc...), or, if you >>>>> are a >>>>> > bit >>>>> > more daring and very cautious and well informed, psychdelic drugs >>>>> (eg >>>>> > Salvia, Mushrooms, LSD, DMT) or suspend your belief that you are >>>>> just a >>>>> > person for long enough (then the reality of unity tends to reveal >>>>> itself >>>>> > spotaneously). If you are in the right mindset and maybe a bit >>>>> lucky you >>>>> > can >>>>> > experience states in which it is directly evident that there is >>>>> > fundamentally no other, just this consciousness that you are. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > I see, Benjamin. But unless one takes these visions as a solipsism, I >>>>> > would >>>>> > ask, what does this bring to the table? We humans are primates, and >>>>> for >>>>> > most of us primates, we are group animals. We need each other even >>>>> though >>>>> > we >>>>> > irritate each other. >>>>> What I am describing can be said to be a kind of solipsism; only I >>>>> exist, >>>>> but I being the consciousness that we all share, >>>> >>>> >>>> I can't make a meaning of that... we do not share a "consciousness", >>>> not in any definition of that term. >>>> >>>> >>>> Let me try, assuming mechanism. Would you agree that in the case you >>>> are cut and pasted in two different places, the resulting individuals share >>>> a common memory-past? >>>> >>> >>> They share a common past memories, but as soon as they are "duplicated", >>> they do not share their consciousness, only past memories. >>> >>> >>> "pure consciousness" is what is invariant through the change of >>> memories. >>> >> >> I'm not sure it is meaningful. I call that 1st person experience. >> Consciousness has a subject. >> > > > By "a subject" do you mean "one subject" or "at least one subject"? >
The one who feel. > If there are multiple subjects, who is the true owner? If there is a > path from every conscious state to every other, > I don't think it can exists a path between two arbitrary conscious experiences. From mines to yours, all of me has to be erased. In what sense after that conversion "me" has come into play ? > then only time separates the conscious state I now experience from the > conscious state you now experience. If all conscious states are reachable > from by subject, then really there is only one subject who owns all > conscious states. > You can't doubt your own consciousness and you're not conscious of what it is to be me, then it is not meaningful to talk about a "unique" owner who *can never know that*. > I think (but am not sure) this is the point Ben was making. Do you agree > with this line of reasoning? > No ;) Quentin > > Jason > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
