Jason Resch-2 wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:17 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On 11/23/2011 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> The simulation argument: >>> >>> http://www.simulation-**argument.com/simulation.html<http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html> >>> >>> If any civilization in this universe or others has reached the point >>> where they choose to explore consciousness (rather than or in addition >>> to >>> exploring their environment) then there are super-intelligences which >>> may >>> chooses to see what it is like to be you, or any other human, or any >>> other >>> species. After they generate this experience, they may integrate its >>> memories into the larger super-mind, and therefore there are >>> continuations >>> where you "become one with god". Alternate post-singularity >>> civilizations >>> may maintain individuality, in which case, any one person choosing to >>> experience another being's life will after experiencing that life >>> "awaken" >>> to find themselves in a type of heaven or nirvana offering unlimited >>> freedom, from which they can come back to earth or other physical worlds >>> as >>> they choose (via simulation). >>> >>> Therefore, even for those that don't survive to see the human race >>> become >>> a trans-humanist, omega-point civilization, and for those that don't >>> upload >>> their brain, there remain paths to these other realities. I think this >>> can address the eternal aging implied by many-worlds: eventually, the >>> probability that you survive by other means, e.g., waking up as a being >>> in >>> a post-singularity existence, exceeds the probability of continued >>> survival >>> through certain paths in the wave function. >>> >>> Jason >>> >> >> Why stop there. Carrying the argument to it's natural conclusion the >> above has already happened (infinitely many) times and we are now all in >> the simulation of the super-intelligent beings who long ago discovered >> that >> nirvana is too boring. >> >> Brent >> >> >> > Brent, > > I agree. About 10% of all humans who have ever lived are alive today. > With a silicon-based brain, we could experience things about 1,000,000 > times the rate our biological brains do. If the humans that uploaded > themselves spend just 1 day (real time) experiencing other human lives > that > is equivalent to 40 human lifetimes worth of experience, and thus 80% of > all human lives experienced would be simulated ones. (After that 1 day) > This is after just one day, but such a civilization could thrive in this > universe for trillions of years. > Isn't uploading somewhat superflous if we are already simulated? It seems this whole argument more plausibly means that there is no simulation needed in the first place (it already there anyway). It seems that ultimately we all will inveitably get lost in our simulations and all the others that we could be a part of (how would we avoid this?), so no one knows anymore what is simulated and what not, and who simulates and who is simluating (and how it is simulated), what is past and what is future, who is who, etc... So ultimately, there are not really concrete simulations going on at all, since there are so intermingled with each other and with "reality" that we can't distinguish different simulations and simulations from reality (in an absolute way). Everything occurs that subjectively can occur. Subjectivity orders the space of infinite possibilities, and learns to navigate it (creating a subjective future). "Normal", material reality is just the ordering mechanism to avoid getting lost over and over again in "simulation-like" or "dreamy" realities.
So we may just feel to be biological beings because this experience is subjectively consistent, not because any objective progress is lacking. We could already be a part of a infinite progressed simulation, we are just lost in it. We wouldn't know how to navigate the infinite possiblilities without biological bodies, that's why we have them. Look at how lost we get in the internet, and that's just things on a screen! Material existence and biological bodies (together with their restrictions) help us to order the possibilities in a very coherent (but sometimes very painful and annoying) way. We may already be in that "virtual" space in our dreams, we just can't stay there very long and harness it to a great extent, because we have no clue what to do with it - it is just too confusing. It is obviously extremely challening to navigate the space of all possibilities, especially considering an infinite amount of agents are doing the same. The only way is to let go of self-centered goals and learn to go with the flow of self-organizing intelligence. So according to this argument, we will never upload ourselves, because we already "did", or rather we are already part of an infinite network of possibilities. If we upload ourselves, we would go "fully" virtual "again", with no benifit whatsoever, so this possbility won't subjectively occur, except in dreams maybe. Instead, more plausibly our material reality will lose its restrictions, as we see we are not really fundamentally restricted to material existence (or we are "already simulated"), we just have to use it as of now because we can't navigate more fluid realities well enough. But we can learn it (primarily by becoming more conscious), and then there is no need for uploading anymore. Slowly we may realize we are already part of an infinite "hyperinternet". My thesis is we (=material beings) are the most important agents in this, because our (collective!) reality is as material and consistent as it can get, and therefore is the best one to form stable networks in (and to create a unified consistent timeline). It may serve as a hub, and as a place to download experience from the less stable realities. We just have to get to a point where we are able to cope with strange happenings and overlapping realities and use the extended possibilities responsibly, which is largly not yet the case. Most people get profoundly confused by that. Until we are more ready to face that, a natural mechanism of self-consistency will (largly) shut of us from the rest of the "dreamy" hyperinternet, making our universe seem barren and our material reality limited. I think a big jump will occur if we collectively are open to such things (meaning no dogmatic materialism and religion), and not start to be superstitous and esoteric because of the events, and not be fearful, and be skeptic concerning the reality of the events and of the informations gathered, and most importantly, beginning to universally treat each other nicely (imagine the horror of criminals being able to read thoughts or teleport into your home, or have psychic weapons) and be aware that we are all in this together, as one. Then we are finally ready to truly join the infinite cosmic ride. benjayk -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/The-consciousness-singularity-tp32803353p32875565.html Sent from the Everything List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.