Jason Resch-2 wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:44 PM, benjayk
> <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Jason Resch-2 wrote:
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:17 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 11/23/2011 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The simulation argument:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.simulation-**argument.com/simulation.html<
>> http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html>
>> >>>
>> >>> If any civilization in this universe or others has reached the point
>> >>> where they choose to explore consciousness (rather than or in
>> addition
>> >>> to
>> >>> exploring their environment) then there are super-intelligences which
>> >>> may
>> >>> chooses to see what it is like to be you, or any other human, or any
>> >>> other
>> >>> species.  After they generate this experience, they may integrate its
>> >>> memories into the larger super-mind, and therefore there are
>> >>> continuations
>> >>> where you "become one with god".  Alternate post-singularity
>> >>> civilizations
>> >>> may maintain individuality, in which case, any one person choosing to
>> >>> experience another being's life will after experiencing that life
>> >>> "awaken"
>> >>> to find themselves in a type of heaven or nirvana offering unlimited
>> >>> freedom, from which they can come back to earth or other physical
>> worlds
>> >>> as
>> >>> they choose (via simulation).
>> >>>
>> >>> Therefore, even for those that don't survive to see the human race
>> >>> become
>> >>> a trans-humanist, omega-point civilization, and for those that don't
>> >>> upload
>> >>> their brain, there remain paths to these other realities.   I think
>> this
>> >>> can address the eternal aging implied by many-worlds: eventually, the
>> >>> probability that you survive by other means, e.g., waking up as a
>> being
>> >>> in
>> >>> a post-singularity existence, exceeds the probability of continued
>> >>> survival
>> >>> through certain paths in the wave function.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jason
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Why stop there.  Carrying the argument to it's natural conclusion the
>> >> above has already happened (infinitely many) times and we are now all
>> in
>> >> the simulation of the super-intelligent beings who long ago discovered
>> >> that
>> >> nirvana is too boring.
>> >>
>> >> Brent
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Brent,
>> >
>> > I agree.  About 10% of all humans who have ever lived are alive today.
>> >  With a silicon-based brain, we could experience things about 1,000,000
>> > times the rate our biological brains do.  If the humans that uploaded
>> > themselves spend just 1 day (real time) experiencing other human lives
>> > that
>> > is equivalent to 40 human lifetimes worth of experience, and thus 80%
>> of
>> > all human lives experienced would be simulated ones. (After that 1 day)
>> >  This is after just one day, but such a civilization could thrive in
>> this
>> > universe for trillions of years.
>> >
>> Isn't uploading somewhat superflous if we are already simulated?
>>
> 
> If everyone were to think like that, then nothing would be simulated.  It
> is like deciding not to put on a seat belt when you go in a car because
> you
> believe in other branches you won't get in an accident in the first place.
>  The decisions we make affect the relative proportions and frequencies of
> events.
We may already have simulated ourselves an infinite number of times. If we
decide to simulate ourselves over and over again, we will get in an infinite
cycle of getting lost in our simulations over and over again.
When we just stop, we realize there is already infinite simulations of
everything possible going on.
This is just the most natural conclusion (like Brent said).

We don't have to simulate anything, because we can't avoid that everything
is already being simulated. The only reason to simulate somehing is if the
experience of simulating something is useful (beyond the benefit of
transcending physical limitations, you can do that in dreams as well - just
learn lucid dreaming, it seems to be more rich than any virtual reality
could be and it has the benefit we seemingly don't get lost and addicted to
it, like with games), and we should only do that while making sure there is
a clear difference between simulation and reality (no universal uploading) -
otherwise we have achieved nothing whatsoever, we'll just join the usual
dreamscape. I am not sure under what circumstances very big and involving
simulations would be useful. It might very well turn out the main reason for
simulating anything is discovering the relationship of simulations and
"real" reality in general. Getting very involved in a simulation may be
impossible (let alone uploading) , since we inevitably will lose contact to
reality (and not just temporarily) quite quickly if we do this. We already
can get dangerously much lost in computer games (often a whole youth is
"wasted" this way), which are comparitively extremely uninvolving (they are
just pictures on a screen and sound, you don't physically feel anything and
there is a clear sperating barrier between you and the game).
In my youth my main activity was playing computer games, and even though now
I seldomly play games now, and in a casual way, my unconscious was very
polluted by it for a long time and still is to some extent. I still have
dreams of getting lost in virtual realities. It's really annoying to not be
able to get out of the game you are playing (sometimes it even seems like
other players want to prevent you). It prevents lucidity and exploring of
more interesting transcendental realms.


Jason Resch-2 wrote:
> 
> It will be interesting when technology to record and play back dreams is
> more developed.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MElU0UW0V3Q
Cool! But it will be a long time before it becomes practically useful.

benjayk
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