On Dec 14, 8:32 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > On 12/14/2011 4:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > How do you know that it's not the computation which is only an > > appearance emerging from the physical universe, which inherently > > includes the potential for consciousness? If you ask computation which > > is primitive, it can only tell you that it is because it has no > > capacity to make sense of anything else. If you ask only myself what > > is primitive, I say awareness. To me, the primitive is the symmetry of > > the two and the function of that symmetry in influencing perspective - > > which is to me, sense-making. > > Of course if you set out to explain consciousness one possibility is to just > assume > consciousness, i.e. awareness, if fundamental. But then you need explain > everything else, > physics, Platonia,... in terms of awareness. Ordinarily "awareness" is a two > part > relation: A is aware of B. So do you need another primitive to be the object > of awareness?
I think the subjective / objective relation is actually the primitive. One side is just the opposite or exterior of the other, heads and tails. That's what I'm trying to get at by using the word 'sense'. You can't get more primitive than sense, and it inherently requires a detector and a detection. Sense is always something touching something, either literally or figuratively. Making contact or bridging the gap. Really both A and B need to be able to detect each other, although what they detect is the object side of the other. A sees B only as something like (ɐq - A), ie, for us the exterior of A is (ɐ) (our body, sense organs, nervous system, cells, molecules, etc), the exterior of B is (q) (size, shape, behavior, context, etc). and the subtraction of A is the absence of subjective identification - objectification. That loss is mediated by the degree to which (q) resembles the reflected image of (ɐ), which would be (a). The more you seem like me, the more I identify with you. What you seem like to me is not actually you as you are to yourself, but as you are to me. If I'm a person, an ant is a pest. If I'm an ant, another ant is a family member. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.