On Dec 27, 4:22 pm, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>   "An apple isn't an apple unless an *actual* worm can live in it."
>
> A simulated apple is a perfectly real and objective phenomenon, it's true
> that a real worm can't live in one but a simulated worm can. It's important
> not to confuse levels however, a simulated flame won't burn your computer
> but it will burn a simulated object.

A simulated flame will do anything your simulation proscribes. That's
why it's not real. A simulated apple can turn into Mickey Mouse every
third Wednesday at midnight. A picture of an apple is not an apple.
Even a fancy animated picture.

> A real flame won't burn the laws of
> chemistry but it will burn your finger. And some things cross all levels,
> like information processing;

Information cannot cross any levels on it's own. Cartoons don't wander
off the TV screen and move into the spare bedroom.

> there is no difference between simulated
> arithmetic and real arithmetic

Because there is no real arithmetic. There is no simulated Mickey
Mouse either. Subjects can't be simulated, only imitated or
impersonated.

> or between simulated intelligence and real
> intelligence.

That's a religious faith in my opinion. If I make a movie where the
actors address the audience as Jim, and then have a screening where I
invite only people named Jim, then I have simulated intelligence
without any real intelligence at all.

Craig

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