On 02 Jan 2012, at 16:01, John Clark wrote:

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 2:27 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

> while a brain is an organ of intelligence/consciousness it needs a body

Information needs to be embodied in atoms if that information is to evolve and without change there is no mind; but atoms are generic, there are no scratches on them to give them individuality so one atom of hydrogen is as good as another as far as information is concerned.

> and an environment in which to perceive and act in order to be intelligent/conscious.

And the environment the mind perceives can be made of atoms, or it can be a virtual environment and if it was good enough the mind could not tell the difference. Indeed some say (I'm a agnostic on the issue) that we already live in a computer simulation and seeing the quantum nature of matter if we look closely enough is like looking too close to a TV and seeing the individual pixels. And Black Holes are a mistake where the God/Programer tried to divide by zero.

If we are digitalizable machine, there is a deductive argument showing that the physical laws are the way the universal machine reflect on each others. This reduce the mind-body problem to the problem of deriving the physical laws from number theory. The theory of mind becomes "simple", it is basically computer science and mathematical logic. But the body appears more mysterious, and we have to justify their coherence by the arithmetical self-observation. This makes also mechanism testable, by comparing the arithmetical physical laws based on self-reference and the laws inferred from the actual observations.

The math distinguish the important difference between computer science (the truth about computer) and computer's computer science (by Gödel 1931 & Co.). This introduces many unavoidable intensional (modal) ways of viewing arithmetic from "inside". There is a mega Skolem phenomenon. Arithmetical truth, although already big is a tiny infinitesimal compared to the first person "plenitude". Inside is *very* big.

It leads to an arithmetical interpretation of Plotinus, and illustrate, at the least, that science has not decided between Aristotle theology and Plato theology. Christians, and their Atheists variants, believe in the God "Matter", where the (neo)Platonists are open to the idea that Matter (what we see/observe) is the shadow, or the border, or the projection of something else.

I'm not saying anything like that is true and I'm not saying it's not, but it might make a good science fiction story.

Reality is beyond fiction.



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