# Re: Question about PA and 1p

```On 1/14/2012 10:32 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
```
```On 1/15/2012 1:07 AM, meekerdb wrote:
```
```On 1/14/2012 6:21 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
```
```On 1/14/2012 4:05 PM, meekerdb wrote:
```
```On 1/14/2012 10:41 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
```
I suppose that that is the case, but how do mathematical entities implement themselves other than via physical processes? We seem to be thinking that this is a solvable "Chicken and Egg" problem and I argue that we cannot use the argument of reduction to solve it. We must have both the physical and the mental, not at the primitive level of existence to be sure, but at the level where they have meaning.

```
```
Suppose there are characters in a computer game that have very sophisticated AI. Don't events in the game have meaning for them? The meaning is implicit in the actions and reactions.
```
Brent
```
```Hi Brent,

```
Let us consider your idea carefully as you are asking an important question, I think. Those NPC (non-player characters), is their behavior the result of a finite list of if X then Y statements or equivalents?
```
```
Dunno. If I were writing it I'd probably throw in a little randomness as well as functions with self-modification to allow learning.
```
How would these not included in the finite list of If - then rules?

```
```
```
Where does the possibility of "to whom-ness" lie for that list of if then statements?
```
I don't know what "to whom-ness" means.
```
```
Speculate what I might mean...
```
```
Why speculate when I can ask you?

```
```
```
```
```
How does a per-specified list of properties encode a "sense of self"?
```
```
I'm not sure what you mean by "sense of self". The AI would encode the position and state of the character, including values, plans, self evaluation, etc.
```
```
How do you encode a map of L has M properties including location in a way that is updatable, or equivalently, for the fixed (with respect to virtual location) how do you encode changes in the environment with respect to the system such that there is a finite upper bound on the recursions of maps within maps?
```
```
I'm not sure what you're talking about? What's a "map of L"? Are you asking how to write an AI program? Whether to use hash tables or matrices or linked lists?
```
```
However I encode changes in the environment, making the recursions finite is pretty much taken care of by hardware space and time limits.
```
```
It seems to me that a "sense of self" is at least some form of model that quantifies the distinctions of what it is versus what it is not. Some set membership function would work, maybe. But this too seems to be encodable in if then rules...
```
```
```
```
Forget the anthropomorphic stuff, lets focus on the 1p stuff here. How do we bridge between the per-specified list of if then's to a coherent notion of 1p?
```
By making the AI behave like a person.  How do you know there's a gap to be
bridged?
```
```
```
What is a "person? Beware of circular definitions!
```
I am and I guess you are.

Brent

```
I am not assuming a gap, I am just trying to reason through this thought experiment with you.
```
Onward!

Stephen

```
```
Brent

```
```
```
```
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to