On 1/27/2012 03:27, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Jan 26, 5:52 pm, Russell Standish<li...@hpcoders.com.au>  wrote:
On Jan 26, 1:19 am, Pierz<pier...@gmail.com>  wrote:

of my own here: no properties can emerge from a complex system that
are not present in primitive form in the parts of that system. There

What about gliders emerging from the rules of Game of Life? There are
no primitive form gliders in the transition table, nor in static cells
of the grid.

There is nothing to the gliders except transitions of the static
cells. The interpretation that there is a visual pattern gliding is
only our perception of it. It's Beta movement. 


There is nothing on the display except transitions of pixels. There is nothing in the universe, except transitions of states (unless a time continuum (as in real numbers) is assumed, but that's a very strong assumption). (One can also apply a form of MGA with this assumption (+the digital subst. one) to show that consciousness has to be something more "abstract" than merely matter.)

It doesn't change the fact that either a human or an AI capable of some types of pattern recognition would form the internal beliefs that there is a glider moving in a particular direction. This belief would even be strengthened if you increase the resolution of your digital array/grid by enough, have some high-level stable emergent patterns in it and only allow "sensing" (either by an external party or something embedded in it) in an inexact, potentially randomized way (such as only being able to sense an average of the block, for example, if trying to access an NxN-sized block, you'd only be able to access a quantized average, and the offsets being sensed would be randomized slightly) - they would even prefer to work with a continuum because there's no easy way of establishing a precise resolution or sensing at that low level, but regardless of how sensing (indirectly accessing data) is done, emergent digital movement patterns would look like (continuous) movement to the observer.

Also, it would not be very wise to assume humans are capable of sensing such a magical continuum directly (even if it existed), the evidence that says that humans' sense visual information through their eyes: when a photon hits a photoreceptor cell, that *binary* piece of information is transmitted through neurons connected to that cell and so on throughout the visual system(...->V1->...->V4->IT->...) and eventually up to the prefrontal cortex. Neurons are also rather slow, they can only spike about once per 5ms (~200Hz), although they rarely do so often. (Note that I'm not saying that conscious experience is only the current brain state in a single universe with only one timeline and nothing more, in COMP, the (infinite amount of) counterfactuals are also important, for example for selecting the next state, or for "splits" and "mergers").

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