On 27 Jan 2012, at 21:02, meekerdb wrote:

On 1/27/2012 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Pierz, Craig, I disagree. Consciousness can be explained as a non 3p describable fixed point when machine's observe themselves.

Why is this not 3p describable? Your explanation of it seems to imply a description.


Yes, but the explanation is not consciousness itself.

In the UDA, you are supposed to know what consciousness is. You are asked to believe that your consciousness remains invariant for a functional digital substitution.

In the AUDA, consciousness is not mentioned. It is handled indirectly via knowledge, which is defined via an appeal to truth, which (by Tarski theorem) is not definable by the mechanical entity under consideration.

In B'"1+1=2" & 1+1=2, the "1+1 = 2" is a description, but 1+1=2 is not. It is true fact, and as such cannot be described. We cannot translate True("1+1=2") in arithmetic. We can do it at some meta- level, when we study a simpler machine than us, that we believe to be correct, like PA. But then we can see that neither PA, nor any correct machine can do this for *itself*.

Consciousness, knowledge, truth, are concept which does not admit formal definition; when they encompass ourselves.

Bruno




Brent


This provides a key role to consciousness, including the ability to develop meanings, to speed decisions, to make decision in absence of information, etc. Consciousness is not explainable in term of any parts of something, but as an invariant in universal self-transformation. If you accept the classical theory of knowledge, then Peano Arithmetic is already conscious.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

Reply via email to