On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Jan 28, 5:20 pm, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't understand why you don't allow machine consciousness if in your
> > theory all forces give rise to sense.
>
> *Craig wrote*:
> Biological organisms are alive. They eat other living organisms to
> survive. Most matter is not alive and we cannot eat it. This isn't
> some flaky theory, it's just pointing out the obvious. We distinguish
> biology from chemistry for a reason. It's only special to biological
> organisms. They have an opinion about whether they keep living or not.
>
JM: as I like to say: a sperm and an egg are alive, because you would not
get conception from dead material. The reason we distinguish chemistry from
biology is our ignorance: we know precious little of the so called
'chemistry' and much much less from what we like to call 'bio'. Just think
about the alterations in the past about those (conventional) science terms.
Atom? explanation mainly matheamtical, on the so far available
(misunderstood?) observations - changed whenever a new item (aspect?)
emerges from the unknown.
What is the opinion of your sperm to keep living?

>
> >
> *Craig wrote*:
> It matters for the same reason that we can't survive on the Moon
> without a space suit. Why are all cells made of carbohydrates and
> amino acids and not silicates and sulfuric acid? Why is 79 protons
> gold but 79 golf balls just a bucket full of balls? Because the
> universe that we see as matter and machines is only the exterior. The
> interior is a universe of private narratives that accumulate over
> time. The carbon based story turned out to be more interesting for us.
> Is it because we're made of carbon or are we lucky that carbon
> happened to be interesting. My hunch is a little of both.
>
*JM:* Are "79 "protons" (what are they?) really GOLD? Nothing else?
I like your "univers that we see *AS *matter and machines" - I don't.
We 'think' in conventional science terms, not necessarily true ones.
I have no idea what that "infinite complexity" is constructed of that is
beyond our 'model' of our universe in which we think we live.
It is (according to MY narrative) necessarily exuding universes of quite
(unrestricted) qualia and re-absorbing them into the complexity. Tima
and Space are OUR coordinates for THIS universe of ours. Carbon???
Matter? I don't speculate beyond the capabilities of human thinking.

Best to all

Craig

>  *John Mikes
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