On 17 Feb 2012, at 18:57, John Clark wrote:

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 a Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  if comp is true, no God is needed. It's just an arithmetic machine.

Even if it's not true God is STILL not needed, that is to say the God hypothesis is of no help whatsoever in understanding anything; it makes no attempt at explaining HOW God does things nor does it explain how and why God came to be. All it does is kick everything we don't understand upstairs and say further investigations into these matters are off limits. No explanation at all is preferable to a explanation that just makes things worse and adds a pointless layer of complication. There is no disgrace in saying in a loud clear voice "I don't know", but counterproductive pseudo- explanations are a disgrace.

I see you defend the conception of God given by the Christians.

I use the term God in the pre-christian sense of the Platonists. It is basically the truth we are searching, whatever it is.

If someone's religion is that the ultimate explanation is a physical primitive universe, then God = that primary physical universe. It remain a God, in the sense that you need an act of faith to believe in it. (As opposed to the physical reality, primary or not, that we believe in because we live it).

That God can be shown not exist if comp is true, and the one with the white barb is not very plausible too.

But, at least for little machine, the notion of arithmetical truth seems to obey many "reasonable" axiom for God, notably:

- It is responsible for the existence of mind and matter,
- the machine cannot describe it in its own language, yet can conceive approximation, - the machine cannot avoid it in any circumstances, but without any means to prove it.

When atheists asserts that God does not exist, they mean the Christian God does not exist, and they behave as pseudo-scientist by taking for granted their own God, hiding the act of faith they are doing in their theories. Comaore to platonism, atheism is a variety of christianism. They share the God MATTER, and they share the notion of GOD, even if they disagree on their existence, on which a scientist can only be agnostic.

Then, even the jewish, muslims and christians are full of theologians having been good thinkers, and perhaps good experiencer, and having developed reasonable things, despite the risk to hurt the susceptibility of the local dangerous power who pervert the initial meaning of the word and questions. I am not even sure that the roman christianism has any relation with the christianism in between 0 and 500.

In fact those who ridicule theology, are those who confined it in the hand of the charlatans. That prevents any progress.



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