On Feb 23, 8:27 pm, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 23, 2:45 pm, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > >     Well, first of all, where is the “disconnect” and what is it made
> > > > > of? Specifically, the disconnect that must occur if some parts of
> > > > > reality are “conscious” while others aren’t.
>
> > > > DIsconnects exist. Some things are magnetic and others not. And many
> > > > other examples. What's special about consc? That we don;t understand
> > > > where or what the disconnect is?
>
> > > It doesn't make consc special, but he is saying it makes it universal.
> > > Magnetism is a good example. In our naive perception it seems to us
> > > that some things are magnetic and others not, but we know that
> > > actually all atoms have electromagnetic properties.
>
> > That's a bit misleading. No atom has ferromagnetic properties,
> > such properties can only exist in bulk (they are "emergent" in
> > of the umpteen senses of the word). The elcetromagnetic properites
> > of atoms are  more
> > akin to panPROTOexperientialism..
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-molecule_magnet
>
> I think it's a bit misleading to distinguish ferromagnetism from
> electromagnetism. I wouldn't even call it emergent, it's more of a
> special case. Just as human consciousness is a special case of
> awareness. I'm ok with panprotoexperientialism though. We can't really
> know one way or another at what point the proto is dropped and have no
> particular reason to assume that there is no experience that
> corresponds to atoms, so it seems safer to assume that that awareness
> is 100% primitive instead of 100-x% primitive arbitrarily.
>
>
>
> > > He is asking what
> > > thing could make consc special
>
> > What special? He doesn't have a ny evidence
> > that cosnc is special beyond our inability to understand
> > it in material terms.
>
> He isn't saying it's special, he is asking why should we think that
> consciousness arises as some exceptional phenomenon in the universe.

Every phenomenon is exceptional.

> Why is such an 'arising' assumed?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > >and how we can assume that it isn't
> > > universal in some sense if we can't point to what that might be.
>
> > > > But it isn;t at all pbvious that
> > > > "we don't understand consc" should imply panexperientialism rather
> > > > than dualism or physicalism or a dozen other options. Almost
> > > > all the philosophy of mind starts with "we don't understand consc"
>
> > > That's not what he is saying. His point is that what we do understand
> > > about physics makes it obvious that consc cannot be understood as some
> > > special case that is disconnected from the rest of the universe.
>
> > That isn't obvious, since there are plenty of physcialists about
> > consc.
> > around. And he didn;t mention physics.
>
> He didn't mention physics but when he talks about 'disconnects' he is
> referring to any theoretical discontinuity between consc and the
> natural universe.

Whatever. It might be better to take as your text the writings of a
notable
panpsychist (Whitehead, Strawson, Chalmers) as your text, rather than
Random Internet
Dude.

> > > > >And don’t get me started
> > > > > on the nonsense superstition of “emergent properties” — show me one
> > > > > “emergent property” that is independent of the conscious observer
> > > > > coming to the conclusion it is emergent.
>
> > > > The problem with emergence is that is defined so many ways.
> > > > For some values of "emergent", emergent properties are
> > > > trivially demonstrable.
>
> > > Demonstrable = compels the conclusion that it is emergent to a
> > > conscious observer.
>
> > Epistemologically dependent =/= ontologically dependent.
>
> The ontology of emergence is epistemological.

Says who?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

Reply via email to