On 04 Mar 2012, at 13:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
An experiment to perform in order to prove experimentally whether Pi
exists independently from the mind
The idea came during discussion on embryophysics list
Below there is a description of the experiment that one could think
of to check the relationships between Mathematics, Mind and Nature
(the MMN experiment). In my view this could be done as a real
experiment (so this is actually not a thought experiment) provided
we find two mathematicians who agree to sacrifice their life for
science. I believe that this should be not that difficult provided
the importance of the experiment for the modern science.
Let us take a completely isolated bunker where the experiment
begins. The initial conditions are enough so that mathematicians can
comfortably chat for awhile with each other about Pi and prove that
it exists. Eventually the oxygen in the bunker will run over and
both mathematicians die. From a viewpoint of a natural science, we
have a dynamical system that eventually comes to the equilibrium
state. I assume that at the beginning when mathematicians prove that
Pi exists we have a consequence of physical states where Pi exists
indeed. If you are in doubt, please suggest any other physical
states where you say that Pi exists. The goal of the experiment is
to establish what happens with Pi at the end when the system reaches
the stationary state.
Because of experimental settings, we can neglect the interaction
with environment and I hope that this could be done even for the
quantum mechanics treatment.
Before the experiment will be perform in real, you can take your bet
on whether Pi is retained after the death of mathematicians or not.
I confess I cannot make any sense of what you say here. What do you
mean by "Pi is retained", how do you verify this (after the death of
Also, what is the initial theory that you have to use to interpret the
I have no clue of the meaning of "I assume that at the beginning when
mathematicians prove that Pi exists we have a consequence of physical
states where Pi exists indeed". "consequence of physical states where
Pi exists" contains too many vague abuse of languages.
When mathematicians proves that Pi exists, they assume a lot (real
numbers, circles, length of enough smooth curves, set theory, etc.).
Usually, they don't prove that Pi exist, they assume that all Cauchy
sequences define some number, called "real number", and they show that
curves sufficiently smooth have a length definable by such a sequence.
Then they define Pi, by the ratio of the length of a circle with its
diameter, and build the Cauchy sequence defining it.
And also, why those two poor mathematicians have to die? Is not Earth
close enough, and the death of Archimedes enough? (assuming the rest
You might just be joking, perhaps.
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