On 06.03.2012 14:21 Bruno Marchal said the following:

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On 06 Mar 2012, at 12:22, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:Stephen, The life is full of paradoxes. My point was that while philosophers cannot solve apparently simple problems (well, these problems happen not to be simple), engineers continue doing their business successfully. How they do it? I believe, exactly this way, they try to understand what they do not know. Then they make trials, run tests, etc. and finally with some luck we get a new technology. Whether the theory of everything exists or not, happens not be essential for the success in engineering. I do not know why. Right now I am at the end of Beweistheorien (Proof Theories) by Prof Hoenen http://www.podcasts.uni-freiburg.de/podcast_content?id_content=24 At the end of his course, he considers the ontological arguments where the goal was to proof existence from pure logic.This is weird. Since the failure of Whitehead and Russell, it is admitted that we cannot prove existence, even of the number zero, from logic alone.

`I have meant the history of such an attempt. It is interesting to learn`

`how people have tried it and in what context. It was new for me.`

A pretty interesting attempt. Still there is a huge gap between logic and existence and it seems that engineers successfully fills it. Ask them, how they do it.This is weirder. Engineers prove that things exist, in theory which assume that some things exist. That is not different than proving the existence of prime or universal number or relation, from the assumption of the existence of the numbers. It is always relative proof of existence.

`Strictly speaking you are right. What I wanted to say is that engineers`

`do not care about this but this does not prevent them from doing useful`

`things. So in a way it is working.`

Evgenii

Bruno

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