On 20 Mar 2012, at 17:40, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Mar 20, 12:01 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:to explain things. But comp is a (scientific, modest) theology, in which we can "believe", hope, or fear, and which makes just many fundamental question technically formulable.There is no consideration that the very act of technical formulation could have an effect on the answer. As the Tao Te Ching begins: "The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name." This is not modest at all, it is in fact a reckless and arrogant assumption.

`No, because it is presented as an assumption, not as a truth (like you`

`did).`

Then comp agree with the TAO, the "real thing" cannot be named.

`But once you accept an assumption, if only for the sake of an`

`argument, you can derive conclusion.`

Comp assumes that its own framework can accommodate all things and that no framework can reduce it to another, while further assuming that this assumption is irrelevant or unavoidable. It may be useful to think of it that way for specific purposes, but as a bet of universal significance, it seems to me an obvious catastrophe.

`Not at all. That is what we can partially test. Comp assumes only we`

`can survive with a digitalizable body.`

In particular it does answer the question "where does the universe come from?". The answer is, by the truth about addition and multiplication, and the technical details are accessible to any universal machines. You will ask: "where does addition and multiplication comes from".This, in the comp theory can be answered: we will never know, atleastin any publicly communicable way.Why add the extra step of addition and multiplication?

To get a Turing complete ontology.

The deus ex mysterium of the latter answer nullifies any value of the former answer, which now becomes: "where does the universe come from?" "we will never know, at least in any publicly communicable way. "

For the universe of number, or arithmetical truth, you are right.

`But the rest becomes explainable for that, as interfering numbers`

`dreams, which are defined by sequences and subsequences of numbers in`

`arithmetic, or the UD*.`

Somewhere between the complete failure to answer universal questions and the certainty of arithmetic lies the really important questions.

I have no certainty. You are introducing it.

`OK, I have few doubt that "17 is prime", or that phi_i(j) stops or`

`does not stops.`

It's a distraction to insert arithmetic in the first place when it could just as easily be the case that the universal colors and odors give rise to the universe.

`You abstract from the fact that with comp, all what is shown in UDA,`

`is that we *have to* explain how odor, color and physical realties`

`emerge. It gives the shape of the solution, and produces already the`

`testable propositional parts. It also reminds us that the genuine`

`theological debate is the question of who is closer to the truth:`

`Plato or Aristotle.`

We already need the numbers to give sense to the question, and we can show that without assuming them (or equivalent) we cannot recover them.What sense do numbers give to the question?

`With comp humans are examples of relative numbers, so you can take the`

`sense *you* give to the question as an example.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.