On Wed, Apr 4, 2012  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> You can be conscious of being here and now.

This is a key element in our disagreement. I maintain that by itself a
consciousness has no way to directly tell the difference between the hear
and now and the there and then. For example if you were to build a
intelligent brain out of atoms and let it operate for one hour and then
destroyed it, and then wait for a billion years and then make another brain
identical to the first one out of different atoms and let in operate for
one hour interacting with identical environmental conditions, then I would
not say that 2 different things were conscious for one hour nor would I say
that one thing was conscious for 2 hours, I would say that one thing was
conscious for one hour. For this reason even if the "eternal return" style
immortality were proven to be true it would give me no comfort whatsoever.
To me this is obvious but many, probably most, think I'm wrong. I guess our
brains are wired differently.

> > That expression is traditional, and used in many place,

You are unlikely to find the truth in this matter through tradition.

> I was just saying that consciousness of a localization does not entail
> the localization of consciousness.

In other words you can think about and receive sensory input from a
particular place. I agree.

>>  From my 3-view I can clearly see that the brain of Bruno Washington is
>> different from the brain of Bruno Moscow, one has memories, that is to say
>> physical changes in the brain, of the sights and sounds of Washington while
>> the other has brain changes signifying the sights and sounds of Moscow;
>> because of the changes in physical structure the two brains operate
>> differently, or to say the same thing with different words, I the third
>> party can see that the mind of Bruno Washington is different from the mind
>> of Bruno Moscow.  Provided that Washington is different from Moscow (I've
>> never been to Moscow but I imagine that it is) then the brain of Bruno
>> Washington is physically different from the brain of Bruno Moscow, and I
>> the third party observer can see those physical differences, and if the
>> construction of those two objects are different then the way they operate,
>> the mind, is different too.
> > But this contradict the fact that you agree both person are the Helsinki
> guy.

How in the world is that a contradiction? You are the Bruno Marchal of 5
seconds ago, but if Everett is correct then in some parallel world 4
seconds ago Bruno Marchal turned around and was surprised to see a fully
grown Siberian Tiger in the room with him. Both you and Tiger Bruno are the
Bruno Marchal of 5 seconds ago, but you are not Tiger Bruno and Tiger Bruno
is not you. In fact although the time between the split is not long the two
of you are now very different, one had a traumatic experience and one did
not,  but both remember being Bruno Marchal of 5 seconds ago.

> I begin to believe, that John Clark only fake to not understand,

Bruno, if I thought you had a good idea why would I pretend you did not?
Looking for good ideas is the reason I'm on this list. I understand exactly
what you're saying, in fact I believe I understand what you're saying
better than you do.

  John K Clark

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