On 5/9/2012 3:34 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:



2012/5/9 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>

    On 5/9/2012 2:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

        So:

        1- If someone is threatening me via my senses (via a weapons he holds, 
on some
        forces he acts upon me... I still have free will, I've still the 
ability to
        choose, some choices are more dangerous, I'm coerced to choose what the 
agressor
        wants, but still have the possibility to act otherwise upon my will.


    But if you do decide to comply determinism would say there wasn't a 
possibility you
    could have done otherwise.  The other agent was compelling.



        2- If someone is using chemical or electrical agent modifying my brain 
state and
        having me acting like a puppet, I don't have free will, I don't have 
anymore the
        possibility to act otherwise.


    But is it really different?  The words spoken to you also modify your brain 
state.
     It's not 'acting like a puppet' because it changes your mind as well as 
your
    action, you still think you're making a choice - it's not that the external 
agent
    just drives the efferent nerves to your muscles.

Well it's not an off/on switch... so it depends. I'd say that while you can still think for yourself, then you still have some amount of free will... less and less free while more and more coerced.

Unless there is only one choice left (strange to still called that a choice).. there still some amount of free will.

Because in reality... the world if full of coercions, social, geographical etc... so either the stance is there is no free will because there is always something that limit the availables choices hence the choice itself is not free because it is constrained or until there is no more choices, some amount of free will/self determination is present.

I agree. There's no sharp line between coerced and free choice. In legal cases it's something for juries to decide. So 'free will' is mainly a social concept meaning 'not unduly influenced and therefore responsible'.

Brent

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