I'm saying that decision making, learning, and reinforcement are possible in a deterministic world, and you are not denying it. I guess our points of view are orthogonal.
Ricardo. On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote: > On May 13, 4:19 pm, R AM <ramra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 13, 11:46 am, R AM <ramra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Craig Weinberg < > whatsons...@gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > What would be the point of learning though? What would be the > > > > > difference between any one outcome and any other one if decision > > > > > making were determined? It is only because of our own experience of > > > > > free will that we can project some significance of any particular > > > > > outcome. > > > > > > Maybe it is because of the significance of outcomes that we believe > to > > > have > > > > free will. > > > > > That assumes a possibility of significance without it. I don't think > > > that can be supported. > > > > I don't see what free will has to do with the outcomes of surviving or > not > > surviving. > > If you have free will, then the outcome of not surviving presents the > ultimate threat to the continuation of free will, as well as the > complete loss of subjective significance and the expectation of > negative sensory experiences. > > If there were no free will, then outcomes of surviving or not > surviving would not be significantly different...they would only be > two differently numbered addresses in an infinite sequence of > meaningless outcomes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Evolution doesn't care how species mutate or whether > > > > > individuals survive, why should the individuals themselves care > > > > > either? > > > > > > Because individuals that care about outcomes survive? > > > > > Only if they translate that care into behavior using their free will. > > > Without free will, care is meaningless to survival. > > > > Individuals that care about outcomes survive. > > You already said that but you aren't addressing my reply that care in > and of itself cannot impact survival. > > > Of course this implies a > > behaviour directed to producing good outcomes. No free will involved. > > These two sentences contradict each other. Why "of course"? Only > because through free will you can choose how to make sense of your > circumstances, prioritize which outcomes are most desirable to you, > and which desires you choose to act upon. This is free will. Of course > free will is involved. Nothing but free will is involved. > > > > > > > > Only if we program them to act like they are doing that. They never > > > > > would learn anything on their own. > > > > > > The fact is that learning is possible in a deterministic universe. > > > > > Even if it were possible, learning would be irrelevant in a > > > deterministic universe. > > > > Whatever. The fact remains that learning is possible in a deterministic > > world. And individuals that survive thanks to learning, too. > > It depends on what you consider learning. Does a stone worn down by > the ocean 'learn' to be smooth? Blue green algae has survived for a > billion years without much learning. Our sense of learning comes > purely out of free will - a desire to enhance our effectiveness in > making more sense and acting more effectively on that sense. > > Craig > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
