On May 15, 1:03 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> >> But a deterministic world, if rich enough to add and multiply, and
> >> thus to contain universal internal observers,  leads already to
> >> indeterminist first person realities (even without comp, although it
> >> is simpler to use comp to justify this).
>
> > If a wave washes one pile of sand onto another, thereby 'adding' them
> > together, why does that generate universal internal observers?
>
> Adding is not enough. You need multiplication, and iteration.
>
> Then universal digital creatures appear, by logical consequences, and,
> as always, reflect themselves and all universal creatures, digital,
> and non digital, which leads them to harder and harder problems and
> questions.

Even if that's true, from where do they appear? To say they appear is
to admit that they are not themselves contained within addition or
multiplication. To say they are creatures implies a creation. What
necessary logic turns a nuclear chain reaction (addition and
multiplication) into a nursery for problem solving sentience?

Craig

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