On May 16, 2:39 am, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:28 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> But a deterministic world, if rich enough to add and multiply, and
> >> thus to contain universal internal observers, leads already to
> >> indeterminist first person realities (even without comp, although it
> >> is simpler to use comp to justify this).
> > If a wave washes one pile of sand onto another, thereby 'adding' them
> > together, why does that generate universal internal observers?
> I don't think you understood Bruno's original point, which was that
> indeterminism (i.e. true randomness) emerges as a first person
> phenomenon in a deterministic multiverse. There's no valid argument
> that indeterminism is required for consciousness or decision-making,
> but even if it were so, a rich enough deterministic world can still
> provide it.
I don't think you understand what I understand. Of course the
limitation of the 1p view excludes information relative to a 3p view,
but the reverse is true as well. Indeterminism emerges as a third
person phenomenon in that subjective privacy cannot be experienced
through it. Determinism emerges as both a first and third person
phenomenon in the form of sense. Motive or will (or 'energy' in third
person') emerges as an orthogonal category relative to determinism;
self-determination, which is the impulse and capacity to make the
indetermined determined. 'I am become will, the collapser of wave
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to email@example.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at