On 15 May 2012, at 19:44, Craig Weinberg wrote:

## Advertising

On May 15, 1:03 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:But a deterministic world, if rich enough to add and multiply, and thus to contain universal internal observers, leads already toindeterminist first person realities (even without comp, althoughitis simpler to use comp to justify this).If a wave washes one pile of sand onto another, thereby 'adding'themtogether, why does that generate universal internal observers?Adding is not enough. You need multiplication, and iteration.Then universal digital creatures appear, by logical consequences,and,as always, reflect themselves and all universal creatures, digital, and non digital, which leads them to harder and harder problems and questions.Even if that's true, from where do they appear? To say they appear is to admit that they are not themselves contained within addition or multiplication.

`They are. Anything Turing emulable appears, and reappears in`

`arithmetic, related to bigger and bigger natural numbers.`

To say they are creatures implies a creation.

`Why not. You could say that they are created by the addition and`

`multiplication laws. You need only to bet that 1+1=2 and alike does`

`not depend on us.`

What necessary logic turns a nuclear chain reaction (addition and multiplication) into a nursery for problem solving sentience?

`The same logic making tiny system Turing universal. Usually some small`

`part of classical logic is enough.`

Bruno

Craig --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.