On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote
> > I don't say that [the free will noise] means you're not deterministic, > I would be glad to hear you say that except that according to illogical Weinbergian logic just because something is not not deterministic does not mean its deterministic, so I don't know what the hell you mean. >I say that means you can make determinations. > If a determination is not made for a reason then its not a determination, it’s a crap-shoot. > Sometimes those determinations are influenced more by conditions you > perceive as external to yourself, > Sometimes a computer's CPU works on data already in it's memory unit, and sometimes it works on newly inputted data. > and sometimes it is you who are influencing external conditions. > And sometimes computers output data to external things like printers or video screens or internet connections and sometimes they do not. > you can voluntarily choose to reason differently > Yes I can change my mind, I've done it before but in the past whenever I changed my internal programming I have always done so for a reason, if I ever find myself changing my mind for no reason then I intend to call 911 because I'm undergoing a serious medical emergency of some sort and a hardware malfunction is going on in my brain. > If you are completely deterministic, then how do you know that the car > isn't driving you instead of you driving a car? > If I determine that the brake needs to be applied I find that my foot depresses the brake peddle and I feel (correctly I think) that I am in control. > free will is neither fully deterministic nor random, nor fully not > deterministic nor random. > That makes no sense. You say "I have free will" so I don't see how randomness can help you clarify what that means because "I" is something but something does not cause random things to happen, nothing does, so the concept of randomness is no help at all in understanding what the ASCII sequence "I have free will" means. > Just as Spring is neither fully Summer nor Winter, > Large complex things like the weather usually happen for many reasons, but every one of those reasons themselves happened for a reason or they did not happen for a reason. And one thing is beyond dispute to any logical person, spring is summer or spring is not summer. > If you insist upon arbitrarily reducing the universe to a single > dimension of determined vs random, then > Then I have understood the lesson taught on day one of logic 101, that X is Y or X is not Y and there is no third alternative. > you cannot understand consciousness as it actually is. > I'll be damned if I understand why determinism is supposed to be the enemy of consciousness or why things that happen for no reason at all, randomness, is supposed to make everything all better. >> that your list of questions came out right after my sentence. And you >> believe that although there was no reason behind your list of questions >> > > >There were all kinds of reasons behind my listing of questions > Yes, there are many different types of deterministic processes. > I created them by reasoning. > Yet another deterministic process. >It was caused by me. > If it's caused then it's obviously deterministic. >I can be described as nothing or not nothing > Obviously gibberish. > It determines and fails to determine. > More of the same, up is down black is white gibberish is not gibberish and clarity is nowhere to be found in your universe. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
