# Re: The limit of all computations

```On 5/22/2012 3:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
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2012/5/22 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>

On 5/21/2012 10:56 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
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2012/5/22 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
<mailto:stephe...@charter.net>>

On 5/21/2012 3:49 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
```
```

2012/5/21 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
<mailto:stephe...@charter.net>>

On 5/21/2012 7:54 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
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```

2012/5/21 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
<mailto:stephe...@charter.net>>

On 5/21/2012 1:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

No it's not a computation, it arises because at
every step, computations diverge into new sets
of infinite computations, giving rise to the 1p
indeterminacy.

Quentin

Hi Quentin,

So could we agree that the idea that the
universe is defined/determined ab initio ("in the
beginning") is refuted by this?

I don't know what you mean here... but in comp the
universe per se does not exist, it emerges from
computations and is not an object by itself
(independent of computations).

```
```            Dear Quentin,

My interest is philosophy so I am asking questions
in an attempt to learn about peoples ideas. Now I am
that only "objects" (considered as capable of being
separate and isolated from all others) can "exist". Only
"objects" exist and not, for example, processes. Is this
correct?

No, it depends what you mean by existing. When I say "in
comp the universe per se does not exist", I mean it does not
exist ontologically as it emerge from computations.
Existence means different thing at different level.

Does a table exist ? It depends at which level you describe it.
```
```
Dear Quentin,

I am trying to understand exactly how you think and
define words.

By "exist"

Existence is dependent on the level of description, and can be
seperated by what exists ontologically and what exists
epistemologically. So it depends on the theory you use to define
existence.

I would favor a theory which would define existence by what can
be experienced/observed. Maybe it's a lack of imagination, but I
don't know what it would mean for a thing to exist and never be
observed/experienced.
```
```

You're not likely to experience a quark or even an atom.

```
Well I didn't say *I*... observer != human. It's something that can interact (with the rest of the world)... And also I agree that what *I* think exists is determined by the model of the world I use... but what really exists doesn't care about what I think or the model I have ;)
```
Quentin

What exists is determined by your model of the world.  Even
parts of the model that make no possible difference to the
experiences the model predicts may be kept because they make the
theory simpler, e.g. infinitesimal distances in physics.

Brent

```
```
Hi!

```
What about the existence of numbers? How exactly does interaction between numbers and observers (per Quentin's definition) occur such that we can make claims as to their existence? (Assuming the postulations of Arithmetic Realism <http://www.mail-archive.com/everything-list@googlegroups.com/msg10752.html>.)
```
--
Onward!

Stephen

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
~ Francis Bacon

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