Hi Bruno Marchal 

Memory may be physical, but the experience of memory is not physical.


Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/14/2012 
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-11, 12:00:54
Subject: Re: Libet's experimental result re-evaluated!




On 10 Aug 2012, at 18:18, meekerdb wrote:


On 8/10/2012 3:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: 
This is not obvious for me, and I have to say that it is a point which is put 
in doubt by the salvia divinorum reports (including mine). When you dissociate 
the brain in parts, perhaps many parts, you realise that they might all be 
conscious. In fact the very idea of non-consciousness might be a construct of 
consciousness, and be realized by partial amnesia. I dunno. For the same reason 
I have stopped to believe that we can be unconscious during sleep. I think that 
we can only be amnesic-of-'previous-consciousness'. 

I have never supposed that asleep=unconscious.  When one is asleep, one is 
still perceptive; just trying whispering a sleeping person's name near them.  
This is quite different from being unconscious due to a concussion.



OK.
But I think we remain conscious after concussion, except that the first person 
go through amnesia or sequence of amnesia, and also that the notion of you can 
momentarily change a lot, and this followed by amnesia. 





I agree that being unconscious might be a combination of loss of all bodily 
control plus a loss of memory.  


I am not sure. It is conceivable that we can remain conscious and lost all 
memories. But I thought before that we were still obliged to have a short term 
memory of the immediate conscious experience itself, so that consciousness 
implies a short term memory of elementary time events, but I am no more sure 
about this.
Like Brouwer I related strongly consciousness with subjective time, but I am 
relinquishing that link since more recently. That's just more doubts and foods 
for thought!










But that seems an unlikely coincidence.  Rather it is evidence that memory is 
physical 


?




and that consciousness requires memory.



The conscious feeling of identity requires memory, but I am not sure that 
consciousness needs more "memory" than the minimal number of flip-flop needed 
to get a universal system, to which I begin to think has already a disconnected 
form of consciousness. Again, it is not the system itself which is conscious it 
is the abstract person it represents, or can represent.


Bruno






http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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