Hi Roger,



What you say about evolution is probably true. But evolution (changes in dna) is not the critical problem. I was referring to the creation of life (dna), which absolutely must happen before it evolves.

This might have happened in one day. It is a local and contingent phenomenon, but it reflects naturally the intelligence which is sleepy in the arithmetical or computer science theoretical truth.

Bruno





Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/18/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-18, 07:31:25
Subject: Re: Earthquakes


On 17 Aug 2012, at 19:49, Roger wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King

The possible only exists in this world given enough time.
That is one practical argument against the creation of life in a deterministic world.
Some say 19 billion years of random constructions isn't enough.

But evolution is not 19 billion years of random constructions. It might even be just one day of random construction. The day when the first universal self-replicating molecules appears together with a simple program, like the iteration of z := z^2 + 1 (z complex number(*)).

I use "z := z^2 +1", which is basically the algorithm to generate the Mandelbrot set, just to illustrate that a very simple program (less than 1K) can generate something having a tremendous complex appearance. Look for example at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G6uO7ZHtK8

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nmVUU_7IQ

In fact life is everything but random. It has many chaotic features, like the Mandelbrot set, but that is not randomness, even if it can look quite like randomness. Nobody fucks woman randomly, you know. It is a more complex process.

Bruno




Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/17/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-14, 23:17:02
Subject: Re: Earthquakes

On 8/14/2012 7:37 PM, Jason Resch wrote:


On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net > wrote:
On 8/14/2012 10:45 AM, Roger wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King

Leibniz' best possible world is a conjecture
based on L's two worlds of logic:

1) There is logic that is either always true or false, called the logic of reason or necessity.
        One could call this "theory"

2) The logic of contingency, also called the logic of "fact", experimental result, or praxis, which can be true or false -- depending on the perfection of the entity
    or the time of occurrence. "actuality"

Most people who acccuse God of injustice or unfairness by a supposedly loving God confuse theory with actuality. Earthquakes do occur because the world has imperfections
or  cracks ior the cointinental plaes don't fit perfectly together.

And any fact must be that way for a reason, the reason also may be contingent, etc.
up the line.



"Everything that is possible demands to exist." -- Leibniz

If everything possible exists (in Plato's heaven / the omniscient mind of God) then so do all universes, all possible histories, all possible observations and experiences, all points of view, all traces of the execution of all programs, etc. Thus, if God is omniscient, he can't help the fact that bad things happen.

Jason
Hi Jason,

Yes, all that is necessarily possible exists. This makes existence neutral and having nothing to do with anything else. Properties arise from partitioning portions of what exists against each other. Properties, like truth values and locations, are not a priori. They are contextual and thus contingent. Existence is not contingent on anything other than raw necessary possibility.


--
Onward!

Stephen

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
~ Francis Bacon

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