Hi Bruno Marchal 

Sorry for the continual objections, but I'm just trying
to point out to you a hole in your thinking large enough to drive
a bus through. However, you keep ignoring my objections,
only intended to be constructive, which is rude. So....

What parts or part of a DNA molecule controls life ?
The code is just a bunch of letters, same problem as
with the computer.  

Letters can't think. A thinker is needed.

To repeat, code by itself can't control anything.
The code is no different than a map without a reader.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
8/31/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-31, 05:28:13
Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence


William,




On 30 Aug 2012, at 22:27, William R. Buckley wrote:


Bruno:

I rather take issue with the notion that the living cell is not controlled by 
the genome.  As biosemioticians (like Marcello Barbieri) teach us, there
are a number of codes used in biological context, and each has a governing or 
controlling function within the corresponding context.  The genome
is clearly at the top of this hierarchy, with Natural Selection and mutational 
variation being higher-level controls on genome.

Readability I think is well understood in terms of interactions between classes 
of molecules ? ATP generation for one is rather well understood
these days.

Programmers (well experienced professionals) are especially sensitive to 
context issues.




I agree with all this. I guess you know that. If you think I said anything 
incoherent with this, please quote me.


Bruno







wrb

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:12 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence


On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:





On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote:


Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form ? i.e. 
DNA).
It isn't really clear exactly what controls what in a living cell. I can say 
that cars are controlled by traffic signals, clocks, and calendars.

To whatever we ascribe control, we only open up another level of unexplained 
control beneath it. What makes DNA readable to a ribosome? What makes anything 
readable to anything?

Encoding and decoding, or application and abstraction, or addition and 
multiplication, ...





Sense is irreducible.

>From the first person perspective. Yes. For machine's too.




No software can control anything, even itself, unless something has the power 
to make sense of it as software and the power to execute that sense within 
itself as causally efficacious motive.

This seems to me like justifying the persistence of the physical laws by 
invoking God. It is too quick gap filling for me, and does not explain 
anything, as relying on fuzzy vague use of words. I might find sense there, but 
in the context of criticizing mechanism, I find that suspicious, to be frank.

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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