On 05 Sep 2012, at 22:24, Stephen P. King wrote:

On 9/5/2012 11:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 05 Sep 2012, at 14:01, Russell Standish wrote:For certain choices of "this or that", the ultimate reality is actually unknowable. For instance, the choice of a Turing complete basis means that the hardware running the computations is completely unknowable to the denizens of that computation.Not really. With comp we know that the *physical* "bottom" is theresult of the competition among all universal machines, (by UD-7 or8) and this leads to (re)define physics by such a competition/measure on all computations. The initial base ontology is reallyirrelevant, and it makes no sense to choose one or another, exceptfor technical commodities.Dear Bruno,I am trying hard to be sure that I understand your ideas here.Could you specify the cardinality of "all universal machines"?

Aleph_0

How many of them possibly exist?

Aleph_0, like the primes.

Put in another way: there is no ontological hardware. The hardwareand wetware are emergent on the digital basic ontology (which canbe described by numbers or combinators as they describe the samecomputations and the same object: you can prove the existence ofcombinators in arithmetic, and you can prove the existence ofnumbers from the combinator S and K. So the basic ontology isreally the same and we can "know" it (betting on comp). It isreally like the choice of a base in a linear space.So is there or is there not something that corresponds to"resources" (such as memory) for the Universal machines in yourthought?

`Yes, Stephen, most digital beings have memories, and things like that.`

`All universal machine defines their own way to memorize, and interact.`

`And none, a priori, use any physical resource, only when they are`

`implemented in a special universal one which we bet support us too,`

`but that is a relative situation.`

`Please ask if not clear, or read some good book on computer science.`

`All the (mathematical) machine have memories or equivalent. Keep in`

`mind that they can all emulate each other. So arithmetic (above) can`

`emulate a UNIVAC with transistors and tube, like it can emulate a`

`quantum topological modular functor à-la Kitaev-Friedman.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.