On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
> Hi Craig Weinberg
> But the universe IS created.
I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created.
Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an
arbitrary conceptual partition thereof.
> I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible,
Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there.
> for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other.
> Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers.
Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that their
prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in handy in
Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a priesthood
class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is forbidden
to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt and lie to
people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, I would be
most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers,
politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting
degenerate sinners who I already own?
> So the koran seems to omit the part about loving
> and forgiving each other.
Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals:
“…. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving,
Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, 64: 14]
“Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the
ignorant.” [Qur’an, 7:199]
“… They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to
forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, 24:22]
Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased
our minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same
kinds of people.
> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
> so that everything could function."
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> *Time:* 2012-09-11, 08:52:16
> *Subject:* Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
> Hi Roger,
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
>> Hi Craig Weinberg
>> The Creator is not created. So no problem.
> Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem?
> What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory
> power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist?
> What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's
> demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion,
> oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I
> am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and
> misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as
> well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of
> a Bible seems contrary to the purposes of a Creator who endows his
> creations with direct capacities to make sense of his creation (including
> themselves). Does he want us to know he exists or doesn't he? If so, why
> write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary from place to place?
> If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive?
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