Hi Craig Weinberg 

You're certainly welcome to your beliefs.

OK, I was wrong about forgiving your neighbor,
but I don't think that the Koran asks you to love your neighbor.

Yes, I've travelled a lot. 


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/11/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-11, 09:48:04
Subject: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?




On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg 

But the universe IS created.

I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created.

Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an 
arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. 
 


I  believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible,

Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there.

 

for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other.  
Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers.

Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that their 
prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in handy in 
Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a priesthood class 
on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is forbidden to wear 
sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt and lie to people by 
announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, I would be most 
interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, politicians, 
businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting degenerate sinners who I 
already own?
 
So the koran seems to omit the part about loving
and forgiving each other. 

Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals:


?. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most 
Merciful.? [Qur?n, 64: 14]

?old to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.? 
[Qur?n, 7:199]

? They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive 
you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.? [Qur?n, 24:22]

Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased our 
minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same kinds of 
people.

Craig
 



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/11/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-11, 08:52:16
Subject: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?


Hi Roger,

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
Hi Craig Weinberg   

The Creator is not created. So no problem. 


Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? 

What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory power? 
Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? 

What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's demons 
who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, oppression, and 
cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I am God and make 
them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and misery (even if the cost 
is that it has some very good side effects as well)? Not to suggest that you 
doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of a Bible seems contrary to the 
purposes of a Creator who endows his creations with direct capacities to make 
sense of his creation (including themselves). Does he want us to know he exists 
or doesn't he? If so, why write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary 
from place to place? If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive?

Craig

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