On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:06:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
>
>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>  
> You're certainly welcome to your beliefs.
>  
> OK, I was wrong about forgiving your neighbor,
> but I don't think that the Koran asks you to love your neighbor.
>

"Worship Allah and join none with him (in worship); and do good to parents, 
kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the neighbor who is near of kin, the neighbor 
who is stranger, the companion by your side, ... "[ Quran, chapter 4, verse 
36]

Loving your neighbor is not about sending Valentines to strangers, it's 
just about not being prejudiced. It's the timeless wisdom of the Golden 
Rule - 'don't forget that other people are just like you and you are just 
like them.'. It's basically a summary of Liberal Socialism.

Craig
 

>  
> Yes, I've travelled a lot. 
>  
>  
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net <javascript:>
> 9/11/2012 
> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
> so that everything could function."
>
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> 
> *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> 
> *Time:* 2012-09-11, 09:48:04
> *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
>
>  
>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
>>
>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>  
>> But the universe IS created.
>>
>
> I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created.
>
> Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an 
> arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. 
>  
>
>>   
>> I  believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible,
>>
>
> Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there.
>
>  
>
>>  for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other.  
>> Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers.
>>
>
> Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that 
> their prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in 
> handy in Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a 
> priesthood class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is 
> forbidden to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt 
> and lie to people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, 
> I would be most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, 
> politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting 
> degenerate sinners who I already own?
>  
>
>>  So the koran seems to omit the part about loving
>> and forgiving each other. 
>>
>
> Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals:
>
>
> 锟斤拷. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, 
> Most Merciful.� [Qur锟�n, 64: 14]
>
> 锟�old to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the 
> ignorant.� [Qur锟�n, 7:199]
>
> 锟斤拷 They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to 
> forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.� [Qur锟�n, 24:22]
>
> Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased 
> our minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same 
> kinds of people.
>
> Craig
>  
>
>>   
>>  
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>> 9/11/2012 
>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
>> so that everything could function."
>>
>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>> *Time:* 2012-09-11, 08:52:16
>> *Subject:* Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
>>
>>  Hi Roger,
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
>>>
>>> Hi Craig Weinberg   
>>>
>>> The Creator is not created. So no problem. 
>>>
>>
>> Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? 
>>
>> What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory 
>> power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? 
>>
>> What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's 
>> demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, 
>> oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I 
>> am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and 
>> misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as 
>> well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of 
>> a Bible seems contrary to the purposes of a Creator who endows his 
>> creations with direct capacities to make sense of his creation (including 
>> themselves). Does he want us to know he exists or doesn't he? If so, why 
>> write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary from place to place? 
>> If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive?
>>
>> Craig
>>
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