Hi Alberto G. Corona IMHO the bottom line revolves around the problem of solipsism, which is that we cannot prove that other people or objects have minds, we can only say at most that they appear to have minds.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/9/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-08, 14:45:00 Subject: Re:_The_real_reasons_we_don?_have_AGI_yet Deutsch is right about the need to advance in Popperian epistemology, which ultimately is evolutionary epistemology. How evolution makes a portion of matter ascertain what is truth in virtue of what and for what purpose. The idea of intelligence need a knowledge of what is truth but also a motive for acting and therefore using this intelligence. if there is no purpose there is no acting, if no act, no selection of intelligent behaviours if no evolution, no intelligence. Not only intelligence is made for acting accoding with arbitrary purpose: It has evolved from the selection of resulting behaviours for precise purposes. an ordinary purpose is non separable from other purposes that are coordinated for a particular superior purpose, but the chain of reasoning and actng means tthat a designed intelligent robot also need an ultimate purpose. otherwise it would be a sequencer and achiever of disconnected goals at a certain level where the goals would never have coordination, that is it would be not intelligent. This is somewhat different ffom humans, because much of our goals are hardcoded and non accessible to introspection, although we can use evolutionary reasoning for obtaining falsable hypothesis about apparently irrational behaviour, like love, anger aestetics, pleasure and so on. However men are from time to time asking themselves for the deep meaning of what he does. specially when a whole chain of goals have failed, so he is a in a bottleneck. Because this is the right thing to do for intelligent beings. A true intelligent being therefore has existential, moral and belief problems. If an artificial intelligent being has these problems, the designed as solved the problem of AGI to the most deeper level. An AGI designed has no such "core engine" of impulses and perceptions that drive, in the first place, intelligence to action: curiosity, fame and respect, power, social navigation instimcts. It has to start from scratch. Concerning perceptions, a man has hardwired perceptions that create meaning: There is part of brain circuitry at various levels that make it feel that a person in front of him is another person. But really it is its evolved circuitry what makes the impression that that is a person and that this is true, instead of a bunch of moving atoms. Popperian Evoluitionary epistemology build from this. All of this link computer science with philosophy at the deeper level. Another comment concerning design: The evolutionary designs are different from rational designs. The modularity in rartional design arises from the fact that reason can not reason with many variables at the same time. Reason uses divide an conquer. Object oriented design, modual architecture and so on are a consequence of that limitation. These design are understandable by other humans, but they are not the most effcient. In contrast, modularity in evolution is functional. That means that if a brain structure is near other in the brain forming a greater structuture it is for reasons of efficiency, not for reasons of modularity. the interfaces between modules are not discrete, but pervasive. This makes essentially a reverse engineering of the brain inpossible. 2012/10/8 John Clark > > How David Deutsch can watch a computer beat the 2 best human Jeopardy! > players on planet Earth and then say that AI has made ?o progress whatever > during the entire six decades of its existence? is a complete mystery to me. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.